My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
03-21-2004, 04:38 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Broussard Louisiana USA
Posts: 349
My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
OK,
I just got back from the lease up in Arkansas. Everybody knows that I have been cursing my plots since last planting season.
Well, the clover that I planted LAST year is finally starting to come up through the ground....most of it is very small but it is coming.
I found some soil test kits at the supply store and gathered samples from all of my plots. (so called plots).
Here is the results:
pH: 6.0-6.5 on every plot
Nitrogen: so low it didn't detect it in the soil
Phosphorous: so low it didn't detect it in the soil, except for one plot which said that it was Very Low.
Potasium: All of the plots said that they were Medium
I went to Walmart and picked up some 13-13-13 and fertilized heavy right after a real good rain.
I wanted something with more Nitrogen but I didn't want to pay $36 for a forty pound bag....especially when I needed about 5 bags.
Did I do wrong? What now? How long should I go back and hit it again? How long should I go and spray some Poast or Advantage?
Thanks
Dean
I just got back from the lease up in Arkansas. Everybody knows that I have been cursing my plots since last planting season.
Well, the clover that I planted LAST year is finally starting to come up through the ground....most of it is very small but it is coming.
I found some soil test kits at the supply store and gathered samples from all of my plots. (so called plots).
Here is the results:
pH: 6.0-6.5 on every plot
Nitrogen: so low it didn't detect it in the soil
Phosphorous: so low it didn't detect it in the soil, except for one plot which said that it was Very Low.
Potasium: All of the plots said that they were Medium
I went to Walmart and picked up some 13-13-13 and fertilized heavy right after a real good rain.
I wanted something with more Nitrogen but I didn't want to pay $36 for a forty pound bag....especially when I needed about 5 bags.
Did I do wrong? What now? How long should I go back and hit it again? How long should I go and spray some Poast or Advantage?
Thanks
Dean
03-21-2004, 09:00 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
Glad to hear you haven't given up on the plot.
A decent plot should dominate in its 2nd year of growth, and little if any chemical weed control should be needed. 3 mowings over the course of the summer should allow the clover to become the dominant growth. If not, I probably would cut my losses & replant before I would try Poast.
The fertilizing you did may or may not help.
The soil test usually will give lbs/acre of N-P-K for a given crop. When you toss out some 13-13-13 - its kind of like saying "I don't know what to put out here - so I'll throw a little of everything out". Do you know how many lbs per acre you put down? The N in the 13-13-13 only helps the weeds to compete if the plot was innoculated.
Just keep in mind that a plot that is "poor" in its first 1-2 years will likely never be much of a plot. The money you put into extending the life of the plot, usually will be more than if you replant.
A decent plot should dominate in its 2nd year of growth, and little if any chemical weed control should be needed. 3 mowings over the course of the summer should allow the clover to become the dominant growth. If not, I probably would cut my losses & replant before I would try Poast.
The fertilizing you did may or may not help.
The soil test usually will give lbs/acre of N-P-K for a given crop. When you toss out some 13-13-13 - its kind of like saying "I don't know what to put out here - so I'll throw a little of everything out". Do you know how many lbs per acre you put down? The N in the 13-13-13 only helps the weeds to compete if the plot was innoculated.
Just keep in mind that a plot that is "poor" in its first 1-2 years will likely never be much of a plot. The money you put into extending the life of the plot, usually will be more than if you replant.
03-22-2004, 08:13 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Broussard Louisiana USA
Posts: 349
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
Farmhunter....In the book it did have that information but it only showed for Low, Medium and high.....the Nitrogen and Phosporous didn't even show on the scale. It showed none. So I couldn't get the pounds per acre.....I put down 80#'s of 13-13-13 for about a 1/2 acre.
Wooddust.....I am curious, why I would use that mix...I know I need Phosphorous but I also need Nitrogen.
What does the 0-46-0 cost?
Wooddust.....I am curious, why I would use that mix...I know I need Phosphorous but I also need Nitrogen.
What does the 0-46-0 cost?
03-22-2004, 05:10 PM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 448
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
I know I need Phosphorous but I also need Nitrogen.
0-46-0 or 18-46-0 is a common mix available to farmers as a phosphorus source at many feed/seed mills. It can be mixed with 0-0-60 to get close to the N-P-K requirements for clover or alfalfa.
03-22-2004, 09:13 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Broussard Louisiana USA
Posts: 349
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
pH: 6.0-6.5 on every plot
Nitrogen: so low it didn't detect it in the soil
Phosphorous: so low it didn't detect it in the soil, except for one plot which said that it was Very Low.
Potasium: All of the plots said that they were Medium
Nitrogen: so low it didn't detect it in the soil
Phosphorous: so low it didn't detect it in the soil, except for one plot which said that it was Very Low.
Potasium: All of the plots said that they were Medium
After putting the 13-13-13 on this past weekend, what is my next move? How much of what?
03-22-2004, 09:58 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: cazenovia, NY USA
Posts: 2,973
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
stone cold -
OK - 80 lbs of 13-13-13 on 1/2 acre means you put down 20.8 lbs per acre of each (n-p-k).
The last plot I did a soil test on - for clover - the total requirements were
150 lbs/ acre of K, 180 lbs/acre of P, and 0 lbs per acre of N.
Keep in mind that these are "total requirements" - for instance - the soil test indicated that we had 130 lbs of K/acre already present and the recommendation was an additional 20 lbs/acre of K (33 lbs of -0-0-60 per acre)
Without knowledge of what (in terms of lbs/acre) is already present - its hard for anyone to theorize what to do next. Personally, I'd probably plow it all up, get a new - and real soil sample, and start over.
Sorry its probably not the answer you were looking for.
OK - 80 lbs of 13-13-13 on 1/2 acre means you put down 20.8 lbs per acre of each (n-p-k).
The last plot I did a soil test on - for clover - the total requirements were
150 lbs/ acre of K, 180 lbs/acre of P, and 0 lbs per acre of N.
Keep in mind that these are "total requirements" - for instance - the soil test indicated that we had 130 lbs of K/acre already present and the recommendation was an additional 20 lbs/acre of K (33 lbs of -0-0-60 per acre)
Without knowledge of what (in terms of lbs/acre) is already present - its hard for anyone to theorize what to do next. Personally, I'd probably plow it all up, get a new - and real soil sample, and start over.
Sorry its probably not the answer you were looking for.
03-23-2004, 07:04 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Broussard Louisiana USA
Posts: 349
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
Farm Hunter,
OK, I am lost. I bought a soil test kit that was supposed to be what they run when you send in your samples.
What will they see that I didn't. If they see no change, what would their recommendation be?
What are the soil requirements for growing clover?
OK, I am lost. I bought a soil test kit that was supposed to be what they run when you send in your samples.
What will they see that I didn't. If they see no change, what would their recommendation be?
What are the soil requirements for growing clover?
03-23-2004, 08:11 AM
#9
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Western MO
Posts: 321
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
StoneCold...I could get overly technical here but I don't really want to....The soil tests you get back are highly accuarte on P and K and on pH...these are easy to quantify in a soils lab and thus we get accurate results. Nitrogen on the other hand is a different cat...N is present in many forms in the soil...Nitite and nitrate; Nitrogen contained in organic matter that is decomposing, etc etc etc...as a result, what you get in a soil sample result for nitrogen is based on what is a "good guess" based on Organic matter %, soil type, local experience, crop planned (major difference for corn vs Soybeans as an example or cotton vs soybeans or hay), and a thing called "cation exchange capasity".
To your question...do you need N for Clover...sure...but you likely have enough that it wont limit the plants ability to grow. 0-46-0 is not expensive...call a local fertlizer dealer. You may want to break the recommendation down into pounds needed per 1000 sqaure feet if your plot area is small.
Above you asked about Clover and what its nutritional needs are. Red Clover will remove 12 lbs. of phosphate and 45 lbs/acre of potash per ton of dry matter harvested Again, we can use general guidelines. If we are producing Clover for hay or as a forage for grazing, we need to know the tons of Clover per acre that we bale or that cows eat...no way for you to know that...so..a good "guess" based on historical data and research would say that your clover if its a good stand will remove from the soil 60 pounds of phoshphorus (P) and about 250 pounds of Potash (K) per acre/ year.
To your question...do you need N for Clover...sure...but you likely have enough that it wont limit the plants ability to grow. 0-46-0 is not expensive...call a local fertlizer dealer. You may want to break the recommendation down into pounds needed per 1000 sqaure feet if your plot area is small.
Above you asked about Clover and what its nutritional needs are. Red Clover will remove 12 lbs. of phosphate and 45 lbs/acre of potash per ton of dry matter harvested Again, we can use general guidelines. If we are producing Clover for hay or as a forage for grazing, we need to know the tons of Clover per acre that we bale or that cows eat...no way for you to know that...so..a good "guess" based on historical data and research would say that your clover if its a good stand will remove from the soil 60 pounds of phoshphorus (P) and about 250 pounds of Potash (K) per acre/ year.
03-23-2004, 08:22 AM
#10
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Western MO
Posts: 321
RE: My Clover Plot Cont. (Update)
One point....soil test kits are generally garbage. There is no way that you can get an accuarte result with these silly test kits that use solutions and titrations....toss it, take a few samples to a fertilizer dealer or extension office and get a real soil sample.