Need help in Wi.
07-23-2003, 12:45 PM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Need help in Wi.
Most are probably between $500 and $800 per day, plus expenses, and I' ve heard of James Kroll from TX getting around $2000 a day, plus expenses.
A guy like Neil Dougherty will come to your property, and when he leaves, you will have a map of what specifically you want to, and need to accomplish on your property, with specific plot designs, access routes, potential ambush sites, type of plots, directional hunter movement patterns, potential habitat improvement areas(clearcut, etc.), all with favorable traditional wind patterns.
When these guys leave, you should have a professionally established, long-range management plan for your property, based on years of experience of not only doing it the right way, but the costly mistakes that can be avoided.
A guy like Neil Dougherty will come to your property, and when he leaves, you will have a map of what specifically you want to, and need to accomplish on your property, with specific plot designs, access routes, potential ambush sites, type of plots, directional hunter movement patterns, potential habitat improvement areas(clearcut, etc.), all with favorable traditional wind patterns.
When these guys leave, you should have a professionally established, long-range management plan for your property, based on years of experience of not only doing it the right way, but the costly mistakes that can be avoided.
07-24-2003, 09:44 AM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Need help in Wi.
I' ve had 2 foresters on 2 different properties, and they were marginally helpful to almost detrimental to my success. The first helped with some tree-planting methods, and the 2nd was a 3 hour tour waste of time. In fact the 2nd one told me food plots wouldn' t grow on my soil that now supports 9 plots totaling 5 5/8 Acres with soil ph' s of 6.5 to 7.3(after 28 tons of lime). The 2nd one also told me about a great place for a " free pond" from the government, that later turned out to be my best location on the property for preferred native vegitation, and even a food plot would have been a great waste of a natural resource, let alone a pond, when I already have a creek and a river flowing through the property.
I know there are exceptions, but in general foresters know 1 thing....trees. And remember, they are in the business of promoting future boards per foot, not wildlife improvement. You need to find someone that specialized in wildlife habitat improvement, with a strategic hunting edge, that is familiar with sustanable forestry practices that could be implemented on a limited basis, if appropriate, especially in non-deer people areas, on your property.
I live and breath in the great forest of the U.P. of Michigan, where 84% of the land is public, with extensive timber practices. I know of no forester in the area, (and I know several personally), that know a lick about habitat management for wildlife, let alone deer. In fact I was frustrated enough I hired Mark Thomas to basically let me know I was headed in the right direction. Mark is actually part forester, but he is a wildlife biologist, as well as a board member of the national QDMA, and recommended to me by Brian Murphy, so I felt quite certain I wouldn' t run into the same problems I had in the past with a general lack of knowledge for the area that was important to me....wildlife enhancement.
Hiring a consultant is NOT for everyone. But if you can afford to buy a $50,000 to $500,000 peice of property, and have the focus, and/or the time, and the effort, with a clear objective to make your property as attractive to a whitetailed deer as possible in the shortest amount of time, what' s another $1000 to do it right?
**I know I might offend a forester with these comments, and if I do, sorry about that, but in my opinion, with knowing a little about the industry, having foresters as friends, and knowing foresters that work for the state, the national forest, and private timber companies......foresters are very good at what the do, but that' s my point....they do timber, not wildlife, and the two can be extreme opposites at times, depending upon the individual property. You basically have a choice: Grow deer? or Boards per foot?. Often when you try to do both, you don' t do your best at either. For me, on my property, deer/wildlife come first, trees second. I guess it all depends on your goals, and level of commitment to long-term planning.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
I know there are exceptions, but in general foresters know 1 thing....trees. And remember, they are in the business of promoting future boards per foot, not wildlife improvement. You need to find someone that specialized in wildlife habitat improvement, with a strategic hunting edge, that is familiar with sustanable forestry practices that could be implemented on a limited basis, if appropriate, especially in non-deer people areas, on your property.
I live and breath in the great forest of the U.P. of Michigan, where 84% of the land is public, with extensive timber practices. I know of no forester in the area, (and I know several personally), that know a lick about habitat management for wildlife, let alone deer. In fact I was frustrated enough I hired Mark Thomas to basically let me know I was headed in the right direction. Mark is actually part forester, but he is a wildlife biologist, as well as a board member of the national QDMA, and recommended to me by Brian Murphy, so I felt quite certain I wouldn' t run into the same problems I had in the past with a general lack of knowledge for the area that was important to me....wildlife enhancement.
Hiring a consultant is NOT for everyone. But if you can afford to buy a $50,000 to $500,000 peice of property, and have the focus, and/or the time, and the effort, with a clear objective to make your property as attractive to a whitetailed deer as possible in the shortest amount of time, what' s another $1000 to do it right?
**I know I might offend a forester with these comments, and if I do, sorry about that, but in my opinion, with knowing a little about the industry, having foresters as friends, and knowing foresters that work for the state, the national forest, and private timber companies......foresters are very good at what the do, but that' s my point....they do timber, not wildlife, and the two can be extreme opposites at times, depending upon the individual property. You basically have a choice: Grow deer? or Boards per foot?. Often when you try to do both, you don' t do your best at either. For me, on my property, deer/wildlife come first, trees second. I guess it all depends on your goals, and level of commitment to long-term planning.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
07-24-2003, 01:31 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Need help in Wi.
Brian,
I agree with you. In my opinion, it would be best, if you are commited and have the funds, to start with a paid expert such as Neil Dougherty, Mark Thomas, James Kroll, etc.., and then use the services of a forester to carry out the part of your management plan that can utalize the help of a professional forester.
For example:
*Use a consultant to give you ideas of what areas to place food plots, but use a forester to log the area, and create the opening in exchange for cash and services.
*Use a consultant to give you advice on road placements and access trails, but use a forester to make them.
*Use a consultant to let you know what areas would be best to clearcut, which areas to leave alone, and which areas to select-cut, in relation to the overal strategic management of the property, but use a forester to pick the trees to cut for saw logs, pulp wood, etc..
*Basically, have a consultant give you your management plan and strategic advice, but use a forester to carry out the specific tasks that are relevant to the future success of the strategic minipulation and health of your overall habitat.
I agree with you. In my opinion, it would be best, if you are commited and have the funds, to start with a paid expert such as Neil Dougherty, Mark Thomas, James Kroll, etc.., and then use the services of a forester to carry out the part of your management plan that can utalize the help of a professional forester.
For example:
*Use a consultant to give you ideas of what areas to place food plots, but use a forester to log the area, and create the opening in exchange for cash and services.
*Use a consultant to give you advice on road placements and access trails, but use a forester to make them.
*Use a consultant to let you know what areas would be best to clearcut, which areas to leave alone, and which areas to select-cut, in relation to the overal strategic management of the property, but use a forester to pick the trees to cut for saw logs, pulp wood, etc..
*Basically, have a consultant give you your management plan and strategic advice, but use a forester to carry out the specific tasks that are relevant to the future success of the strategic minipulation and health of your overall habitat.
07-24-2003, 02:55 PM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Need help in Wi.
All those words....just to agree!?!
You are right too, it' s one thing to get a great plan, it' s another to implement it fully. It takes dedication and years to accomplish. It seems in today' s society of impatience very few carry out the entire plan. Mark Thomas that was the one thing that could be frustrating at times. You are paid by someone to develop a plan, you do it, get paid, they implement some ideas, but not all, and never reach their full potential.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
You are right too, it' s one thing to get a great plan, it' s another to implement it fully. It takes dedication and years to accomplish. It seems in today' s society of impatience very few carry out the entire plan. Mark Thomas that was the one thing that could be frustrating at times. You are paid by someone to develop a plan, you do it, get paid, they implement some ideas, but not all, and never reach their full potential.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
07-24-2003, 06:44 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,059
RE: Need help in Wi.
Jeff & Brian; my daughter liked my hobby of planting areas for wildlife and just graduated university in environmental forestry. So my forestry questions for general wildlife are looked after. I was wondering about specific recommendations for deer. It saves many years of tinkering if an expert walks your property for one day.
Dan O.
Dan O.
07-24-2003, 08:29 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Clear Lake Wisconsin USA
Posts: 48
RE: Need help in Wi.
Getting alot of good help and appreciate it.My problem is no large acreage for sale
Looking at 2 different 40' s and a 80 same amount of woods on all,little over 1/3.
Had a friend that had 320 acres but won' t let me devolep any type of habitat and it' s just going to waste and he doesn' t farm what I' m interested in and will not sell .
He does hunt but get mad when neighbors shoot deer ,thats why he won' t let me
tryQDM.also no shooting doe' s.last year had 31 in one evening while bowhunting
no bucks,just doe' s and fawns.might have been 4or 5buck fawns.were close enough to see with out binocs.Shame so am trying to go on my own
Looking at 2 different 40' s and a 80 same amount of woods on all,little over 1/3.
Had a friend that had 320 acres but won' t let me devolep any type of habitat and it' s just going to waste and he doesn' t farm what I' m interested in and will not sell .
He does hunt but get mad when neighbors shoot deer ,thats why he won' t let me
tryQDM.also no shooting doe' s.last year had 31 in one evening while bowhunting
no bucks,just doe' s and fawns.might have been 4or 5buck fawns.were close enough to see with out binocs.Shame so am trying to go on my own
