Food plot versus Baiting....
05-09-2003, 07:54 AM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 2,059
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
W&M; some food plots are short term attractants. Most plotters also create clearings, plant mast and fruit trees, plant shelter areas as well as food shrubs and perennial plants. You' re looking at the short term commercial end of the scale. But, even with the products that you mentioned, once you' ve put a good deal of work into your property you want to do more.
It' s like fishing; you start with a rod and a hook. The next thing you know you' ve got a boat, several tackle boxes full of lures and you' ve joined a fishing club. Some of those clubs run hatcheries and have stream improvement projects.
You' ve got to start somewhere.
Dan O.
It' s like fishing; you start with a rod and a hook. The next thing you know you' ve got a boat, several tackle boxes full of lures and you' ve joined a fishing club. Some of those clubs run hatcheries and have stream improvement projects.
You' ve got to start somewhere.
Dan O.
05-09-2003, 11:43 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion for sure. Personally, I would rather QUIT hunting all together, than hunt over a pile of bait. Maybe I' m crazy, but where is the enjoyment in that? Doesn' t seem to me like much skill is needed, or much fulfillment is gained, by shooting any type of game over a pile of bait. I' m not bashing baiting......heck if it' s legal and you want to do it, go for it. I just can' t see it....IMO it' s not hunting, it' s shooting.
Good post(s) Jeff.
Good post(s) Jeff.
05-09-2003, 11:44 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walnut MS USA
Posts: 871
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
As Dan O said baiating lasts a week or so. Food plots are year around thing. Some clover plots will last many years. I' m trying native clover, and if it does as I hope, it will be long time before it' s usefullness expires. I just planted 36 Persimon seedlings in my timber. At age 69 I will never live long enough to harvest any deer (or any other animal) they will attract. To me, it' s the repayment for the deer I have harveated. Miss. does not allow baiting and I don' t mind a bit.
Russ
Russ
05-13-2003, 05:33 AM
#24
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
WV Hunter,
You guys that don' t have bait are very fortunate!
I' m sure you wouldn' t want to, but try hunting in an area that....
Deer movements is very little during the day, and movements are restricted to and from bait piles. You can follow tracks in the snow, and see where a doe-family group will move from pile to pile all night filling up on candy, and moving little to none in daylight.
Only 1 in 20 guys hunts without bait.
Most rubbing and scraping activety is concentrated, surrounding bait piles.
A very high percentage of inexperienced yearling bucks are killed over a bait pile.
Your food plots are stopped being used due to the 30+ piles of bait within 2 miles of your house.
Unless you walk in 1 to 2 miles, are very careful about where you sit in relation to trails and roads, hunt hard, all day, without getting out of your stand, you will not see a deer, let alone a buck.
You have to learn to hunt people patterns, instead of buck patterns.
For the average guy, unless you bait, you won' t see a deer.
Most deer, let alone bucks, are completely nocturnal.
Most of your friends, neighbors, and relatives aren' t really interested or knowledgable about deer, deer hunting, deer biology, or woodsmanship.
The only place you can find hunters who know anything about, or have a passion about, white-tailed deer, is right here, on the internet.....
Baiting has taken the " hunt" out of hunting, food plots are the one thing that puts it back around here.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
You guys that don' t have bait are very fortunate!
I' m sure you wouldn' t want to, but try hunting in an area that....
Deer movements is very little during the day, and movements are restricted to and from bait piles. You can follow tracks in the snow, and see where a doe-family group will move from pile to pile all night filling up on candy, and moving little to none in daylight.
Only 1 in 20 guys hunts without bait.
Most rubbing and scraping activety is concentrated, surrounding bait piles.
A very high percentage of inexperienced yearling bucks are killed over a bait pile.
Your food plots are stopped being used due to the 30+ piles of bait within 2 miles of your house.
Unless you walk in 1 to 2 miles, are very careful about where you sit in relation to trails and roads, hunt hard, all day, without getting out of your stand, you will not see a deer, let alone a buck.
You have to learn to hunt people patterns, instead of buck patterns.
For the average guy, unless you bait, you won' t see a deer.
Most deer, let alone bucks, are completely nocturnal.
Most of your friends, neighbors, and relatives aren' t really interested or knowledgable about deer, deer hunting, deer biology, or woodsmanship.
The only place you can find hunters who know anything about, or have a passion about, white-tailed deer, is right here, on the internet.....
Baiting has taken the " hunt" out of hunting, food plots are the one thing that puts it back around here.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
05-13-2003, 11:29 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Alexandria, Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,079
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
NorthJeff when I read your posts I appreciate that my state hasn' t, as of yet, mess up our deer herd.
What does outspoken, Michigan native, Ted Nugent say about the state of deer hunting in Michigan? Or does he only care about his land, which I am guessing is fenced in?
How come liar Rompola claims to be this true woodsman bowhunter by patterning deer and spending countless hours in the field. Because he has to alter his hunting style by what you described is the current state of " hunting" in Michigan?
Jeff if I owned my dads 120 acres I would invite you to come and hunt with us. I envision my brother and I inheriting my fathers land and if our hunting party were to dwindle to 3 hunters I would ask my brother if I could invite someone from this site.
Last year I passed on 15 deer because of no shot possibilities, doe came out instead of a buck in a bucks only area we designate on the farm or small buck came out when I wanted to take a doe.
That is why I posted a question to the hunters in deer hunting forum if they have 6 people for 1000 acres why not invite others who have no land and let them hunt free of charge instead of leasing......
What does outspoken, Michigan native, Ted Nugent say about the state of deer hunting in Michigan? Or does he only care about his land, which I am guessing is fenced in?
How come liar Rompola claims to be this true woodsman bowhunter by patterning deer and spending countless hours in the field. Because he has to alter his hunting style by what you described is the current state of " hunting" in Michigan?
Jeff if I owned my dads 120 acres I would invite you to come and hunt with us. I envision my brother and I inheriting my fathers land and if our hunting party were to dwindle to 3 hunters I would ask my brother if I could invite someone from this site.
Last year I passed on 15 deer because of no shot possibilities, doe came out instead of a buck in a bucks only area we designate on the farm or small buck came out when I wanted to take a doe.
That is why I posted a question to the hunters in deer hunting forum if they have 6 people for 1000 acres why not invite others who have no land and let them hunt free of charge instead of leasing......
05-14-2003, 05:29 AM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
Buckmine,
If you ever end up owning the acres that would be a great swap. I' d love to hunt MN and I would be willing to return the favor.....although we do have the baiting but my property is improving greatly every year.
Believe it or not, I actually do still enjoy hunting around here despite the baiting practices. I' ve harvested 3 nice 2.5 to 3.5 year old' s around the house in the past 5 years, all of them not even on my property, but the surrounding national forest land. One thing that is good around here is that people stick close to the roads due to their reliance on baiting, and they simply are not very good hunters. If there is a 2.5 to 3.5 year old around, he has got a decent chance of making it through the season. If I can just hold a couple of bucks every year from getting shot, I can really build my herd, and have.
It' s not saying we don' t have a bunch of lack-luster hunters around here that destroy are yearling crop with irresponsibility and disrespect for the animal and habitat, but you can still enjoy the big picture and make your property the best in a several square mile area.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
If you ever end up owning the acres that would be a great swap. I' d love to hunt MN and I would be willing to return the favor.....although we do have the baiting but my property is improving greatly every year.
Believe it or not, I actually do still enjoy hunting around here despite the baiting practices. I' ve harvested 3 nice 2.5 to 3.5 year old' s around the house in the past 5 years, all of them not even on my property, but the surrounding national forest land. One thing that is good around here is that people stick close to the roads due to their reliance on baiting, and they simply are not very good hunters. If there is a 2.5 to 3.5 year old around, he has got a decent chance of making it through the season. If I can just hold a couple of bucks every year from getting shot, I can really build my herd, and have.
It' s not saying we don' t have a bunch of lack-luster hunters around here that destroy are yearling crop with irresponsibility and disrespect for the animal and habitat, but you can still enjoy the big picture and make your property the best in a several square mile area.
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan
05-14-2003, 11:11 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
Jeff... I feel for you man. I didn' t realize it was quite that bad. I guess it makes you appreciate it that much more. I don' t know how I would react if I lived where you do. I think based on my view of hunting, I' d tough it out like you do, and probably eat my tag often.
I hunt in Va and WV, and baiting is legal in WV, but not in VA (although I know folks that do it anyhow). Both states have alot of deer, too many in fact...and in WV a relatively small percentage bait, so we don' t feel the effects you do.
I have never killed a deer over food plots either, but I do feel that it is different than hunting over bait (like you said). I know some guys that hunt over bait, and kill game every season. Like I said before, it just doesn' t do it for me. I hope things improve for you guys up there...if you ever get down my way...look me up, I' ll take you hunting(no baiting though
) 
I hunt in Va and WV, and baiting is legal in WV, but not in VA (although I know folks that do it anyhow). Both states have alot of deer, too many in fact...and in WV a relatively small percentage bait, so we don' t feel the effects you do.
I have never killed a deer over food plots either, but I do feel that it is different than hunting over bait (like you said). I know some guys that hunt over bait, and kill game every season. Like I said before, it just doesn' t do it for me. I hope things improve for you guys up there...if you ever get down my way...look me up, I' ll take you hunting(no baiting though
)
05-20-2003, 06:58 AM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Munising MI
Posts: 501
RE: Food plot versus Baiting....
How many times have you hunted in the U.P. of Michigan?! What have your experiences been? What is your personal knowledge about baiting in the UP of Michigan?
What' s ruining hunting is people that don' t take a hard look at the facts and make tough decisions based on what' s best for the herd, and the future of hunting.
These are the facts of baiting in my area:
*It has produced a sub-par skilled hunter that knows little of deer biology, traditional hunting methods, or woodsmanship.
*It has greatly increased our yearling buck kill, producing a very poor age class, and buck to doe ratio.
*It has made our deer extremely nocturnal, with little natural movement.
*It has increased our yearly fawn buck mortality rates with a dependance on baiting for food and the subsequent missing of the migration and increased predation/starvation.
*The average hunter cannot be successful, unless extremely lucky, without bait. Many hunters in the area will go seasons, without seeing a deer.
*It has increased ATV use on non-ATV woods and trails to transport bait.
Would you admit that if these things are true, that these are things we need to advocate? Are these " good" things to you?
Baiting started around here about 20 years ago, at least of the truck-load variety. It has changed our hunting for a generation. It' s now gotten to the point that many would rather hunt without it, but feel they have to use it to even have a chance at a buck. Many are embarassed to even mention they are using it.
Baiting is completely different in farm country, fruit, or acorn land. It' s basically a non-issue in these places, it doesn' t even matter.....but we aren' t located in these areas, we are heavily forested with no mast, fruit, or farmland. I' ve experience both, and do every year hunting in WI, PA, MI, last year in AL, and years past in KY, and IN. I' ve seen enough to know and experence the differences, many haven' t, so I understand where you are coming from, but don' t make judgements until you have experienced it yourself.
Baiting isn' t a right, it' s a privalege. It' s run it' s course, and most biologists and serious hunters in the area, including John Ozoga, realize not only the negative aspects of baiting, and how it has ruined our local hunting, but that it has run it' s course, and we are looking forward to a day sometime soon that it will be eliminated.
You can say all you want about baiting, but until you' ve lived around here, experienced it, have seen the difference between hunters and deer around here and the rest of the country, you really don' t have enough information about the subject to base a decision on fact.
What are your personal experiences in my area that would differ from mine?
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan, " baiting capitol of the world" , and not proud of it.
What' s ruining hunting is people that don' t take a hard look at the facts and make tough decisions based on what' s best for the herd, and the future of hunting.
These are the facts of baiting in my area:
*It has produced a sub-par skilled hunter that knows little of deer biology, traditional hunting methods, or woodsmanship.
*It has greatly increased our yearling buck kill, producing a very poor age class, and buck to doe ratio.
*It has made our deer extremely nocturnal, with little natural movement.
*It has increased our yearly fawn buck mortality rates with a dependance on baiting for food and the subsequent missing of the migration and increased predation/starvation.
*The average hunter cannot be successful, unless extremely lucky, without bait. Many hunters in the area will go seasons, without seeing a deer.
*It has increased ATV use on non-ATV woods and trails to transport bait.
Would you admit that if these things are true, that these are things we need to advocate? Are these " good" things to you?
Baiting started around here about 20 years ago, at least of the truck-load variety. It has changed our hunting for a generation. It' s now gotten to the point that many would rather hunt without it, but feel they have to use it to even have a chance at a buck. Many are embarassed to even mention they are using it.
Baiting is completely different in farm country, fruit, or acorn land. It' s basically a non-issue in these places, it doesn' t even matter.....but we aren' t located in these areas, we are heavily forested with no mast, fruit, or farmland. I' ve experience both, and do every year hunting in WI, PA, MI, last year in AL, and years past in KY, and IN. I' ve seen enough to know and experence the differences, many haven' t, so I understand where you are coming from, but don' t make judgements until you have experienced it yourself.
Baiting isn' t a right, it' s a privalege. It' s run it' s course, and most biologists and serious hunters in the area, including John Ozoga, realize not only the negative aspects of baiting, and how it has ruined our local hunting, but that it has run it' s course, and we are looking forward to a day sometime soon that it will be eliminated.
You can say all you want about baiting, but until you' ve lived around here, experienced it, have seen the difference between hunters and deer around here and the rest of the country, you really don' t have enough information about the subject to base a decision on fact.
What are your personal experiences in my area that would differ from mine?
Jeff...U.P. of Michigan, " baiting capitol of the world" , and not proud of it.