mauser06

im doing a habitat management project for an ecology class. my professor hooked me up with a land owner. he loves the outdoors and loves wildlife. loves to hunt and be outside and be active and just loves to see wildlife period. he owns 100 acres. its a mix of old fields that are occassionally farmed(he is trying to get food plots put in) some hard woods that was moderatly selectively cut. some of the area is marshy/swampy. its all pretty flat. the hard woods are mostly oak..i actually forgot to look but know i seen alot of oak.

i found a nursery that he may be elegible for 500 free 1yo bare root seedlings. if not they are 25cents a piece so thats still not bad at all. my first thought was crabapples. deer and turkey love crabapples and i seen atleast 1 crabapple tree growing and he mowed around it and put a mini food plot around it.

i dont know much about planting trees though..though since its been logged i think tree planting would be a good way to go. any other recomendations of trees?? we are in north western PA. when would tree planting time be best??

also..he already has seedling hemlocks planted along an ollllld railroad bed he drives his Gator on. they are surrounded by brush already and tiny little trees. maybe 4-10 inches. id like to ensure they grow. whats the best way to do that?? just clear the brush from around them and make sure they are stable??

also want to make some nice brush piles with the slashings left from the logging operation. it was a while ago but he hates the brush and bramble in the woods and wants to burn it. i think we should make brush piles.

any ideas..thoughts..recommendations etc?? i didnt talk to him about the trees yet but he should like the idea..i thought of it after i left..after i do my research and get solid ideas ill talk it over with him.

thanx guys...

farm hunter

Brush Piles are a great idea from a Wildlife standpoint. They too, can be "ugly" - so you need to discuss with the landowner if he wants wildlife or pristine forest - because its not often that there is both. I'll bet you understand that - and can explain it to the landowner.

Also - Hemlocks have evolved to grow, even with a shady, thick overstory. Hemlock can almost go dormant - waiting for an event - like a wind storm of heavy ice storm - that knocks out the canopy, then they'll grow "relatively fast" and take up the space. I would not cut for hemlock growth, until they are more established (maybe 3-5 ft tall), or they will end up competing with all the other trees that will grow quickly. Hemlock's strength is its ability to establish and maintain, in a canopy environment. Probably their biggest threat - is from deer browsing at this point.

For planting new trees - I favor Apples over Crabapples for deer- though both offer similar benefit. Both need full sunlight, and virtually no tree competition to do well. I'd plant anytime in late winter/early spring before any growth.

FH

HEAD0001

Check into Sawtooth Oak. Grows fast and yields large amounts of mass fast. Kill all the Hemlock, it is of no value. No wildlife value, and not merchantible for timber. Hemlock will drown out sun for other valuable species. Wow my Wood Science degree was not for nothing. Tom.

mauser06

[align=right]kill hemlock?? dont take offense to this but that just sounds crazy to me! thats one of my favorite trees in PA. and its a little known fact that deer love hemlock. good cover and also they browse on it. grouse and red squirrels also love hemlock. its just a good cover tree. might block alot of sunlight etc...but it aint gunna kill the mature oaks next to it. and theres really not much hemlock. just planted about every 15 foot or so down a couple lanes and on the bank of an old railroad bed.
[/align]
farmhunter...you think it would be a waste of time to clear a little brush from around them then?? its not trees or anything..just mainly brush thats dead right now..but come spring you wont even see them little hemlocks..i dont want them to completely die.

i will definently talk over all my ideas with the land owner. i just know brush piles will be good cover for small game and birds etc. i can use the bigger logs as bases and build up the brush ontop..would work out well. give the cottontails somewhere to live. i just rather see brushpiles be built then burn it all and take away good cover. i'll see what the land owner thinks and go from there. hes an old timer and just wants to make his place nice. no matter what i wont be doing anything he doesnt want me to do. he really took a liking to me. told me if theres anything i think we should do to let him know...so i'll do that..since it was logged i really want to get some food sources planted..apple just came to my mind..thanx alot..

HEAD0001

From a foresters point of view, Yes-kill the Hemlock. Is has no merchantible value to the land owner. Hemlock and maple are "MATURE FOREST" trees. Ask your Forestry professor to explain that term. Basically it means that these trees are very shade tolerant, and will eventually take over any forest as long as moisture requirements are met. And yes it will shade out all oak eventually. Again, as long as moisture requirements are met.

I do not take any offense to your remark. All ideas should always be listened to, and we should be able to discuss issues in a mature matter. I have a degree in Wood Science, so I am looking at the whole picture, instead of specifics. As long as you can show a monetary value to landowners, they are more willing to help out with wildlife management. But I know how high property taxes are in PA, and a return on investment is helpful. Hemlock just does not have any dollar value. Talk to your professor about species that will be good for wildlife, and $$$$'s. As I suggested plant Sawtooth Oak, along with a good mix of either Red or Black Oak. Sawtooth will grow fast and give acorns in just a few years. The Red and Black will overgrow the Sawtooth for long term acorns, and will be worth something some day.

Have you had a Silviculture class yet? If not then get a book on Silvics, this will explain in detail what I am talking about. A stand of trees should always be managed. In order to manage you need to know elevation, slope orientation, amount of moisture, and soil PH. These are the basics. If you really want to help the farmer then talk to your county extension agent, they will help you. At least they do here in WV. Tom.

mauser06

i understand what your saying head. the land owner is 72 years old and has heart problems. he just wants the place to look nice. he rides his gator around on his trails and the old railroad bed and enjoys seeing wildlife in general. he feeds the birds and squirrels. has atleast 10 deer stands. one giant tower stand he goes and sits in for no reason. he just loves the outdoors. hes not in it for money and had the hemlocks planted by our game commission atleast a year ago. he had them planted so they are staying...i was just trying to help ensure they grow. i totally understand that they arent worth anything and arent as great as oaks and such trees. but theres not a whole ton of them. id say 20-50 on 100acres of land. theres no other coniferous trees around.

and i am thinking of planting other trees..gotta talk that over with him and the proffessor and work it all out. although my job as a student and as my project is habitat management and wildlife conservation i also must go along with what the land owner wants. he just wants the place to look nice and have wildlife on it. hes the kinda guy that doesnt care about tomarrow. he told me if he dropped dead right there hed be fine with it because he had a great life and when its time to go hes going. but till then he wants his land to look nice. i'll be talking with him and the professor next week. we will see how it goes..

Dan O.

Based on personal experience and the fact that it sounds like the owner planted the hemlocks I don't know why you even consider cutting them down. This is a wildlife area that he's looking to create. Hemlocks supply a great deal of winter protection and food for deer in heavy snow areas. It may be different in the south but up here when deer get snowed into a yard they depend on hemlock to survive.

One of my summer jobs was release cutting spruce, pineand hemlock. We didn't spray in those days, just used a cutting tool with a razor sharp cutting blade on the end of an axe handle to clear competing vegetation (poplars, shrubs and grass) about 3' from the planted trees. Nowadays they would probably spray with simazine or Roundup.

I fully agree with Farm Hunter about the apples for food but if the area is very open you might want to provide sanctuaries near the oaks like pines, spruce or shrubs. It sounds like you already have a large number of mature oaks so fertilization might help them increase their yield rather than planting more oaks. Alternatively if he wants an increase in turkeys etc. you might look into autumn olives, nannyberries or highbush cranberries.

Dan O.

mauser06

dan...im not looking to cut or kill the hemlocks in any way. my initial idea was to clear the brush and stuff out from around the hemlocks to ensure that they grow. HEAD0001 suggested i cut them and kill them..but hes coming from a foresters POV. the land owner did indeed have them hemlocks planted. i will not kill them. i want to ensure they grow. i am going to use a rack and cicle or something to clear out around them like you said Dan O. thatswhat i wanted to do. he got them planted down an OLD railroad bed. they will be awesome if they take and grow. and provide excellent edge habitat and cover.

next time im there im going to take a harder look around and ID the older trees etc. i dont know if its open enough to grow anything with any success. and dont know how many oaks are left etc..i was only there once just for a quick overview and to meet the landowner.

Dan O.

mauser06; I didn't think that you would remove the hemlocks. I was just throwing my 2 cents worth in. The attachment shows the clearing axe that I was talking about. They're invaluable for clearing trees and brush.

http://shop.btcv.org.uk/shop/level3/7/stock/162

Dan O.

HEAD0001

I spoke to a friend of mine today who is a forester. Before I commented on the Sawtooth Oak I wanted to check on something. He confirmed for me that a 5 to 6 footer would produce acorns in 2 to 5 years. They really produce fast. You can check with the NWTF, I believe they have a program where you can acquire some of these trees. They are highly recommended for turkey's. I planted some five footers two years ago in the fall. This will be there second growing season. They grew two to three feet last year. One hint: It is recommended not to fertilize the first year. I do not know why, I think it has something to do with burning the exposed roots the first year. In the second year use a three pound coffee can full of triple 10-spread in a 5 foot circle around tree. Good luck, I hope I didn't cause any confusion, it was not my intent. Tom.