My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
10-10-2004, 05:43 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: palm bay fl
Posts: 4,504
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
i havent been around much, been hunting....this is the letter i always end up postin'...i wrote it to my dad when i first started on this site years ago...i tried to cover every aspect of why we hunt to help him and my step mom understand...so here it is for you...it's long, lol...
If either one or both of you want to know about your daughters and the lives that they have chosen for themselves , please ,take a look at the issue through the eyes of those who know hunting for what it really is…..and hunter’s for who they are……..
The hunter’s heart: is a mystery to many……those who do not hunt often feel that it is cold, dark , and full of evil….. truly not the case…
It starts with Ethics…without ethics, man can be a licensed hunter and still be a poor sportsman…. The ethical hunter knows both the limits of their equipment and their shooting ability and always tries for a quick, clean harvest. In addition , the ethical hunter obeys all laws written and unwritten when hunting.
The ethical hunter treats game with respect before and after the shot ,we take pride in hunting and being hunters we always hunt in such a way that neither us or the game are shamed…
The ethical hunter will make every possible effort to help find lost game and will even abandon their own hunt to help others recover lost game……
We never take more than our legal limit of game ( bag limits made their first appearance in Iowa in 1878 and , by the end of the first century , 13 states had limited the amount of game that could be legally taken. Over the next 10 years , HUNTERS in 23 more states REQUESTED this approach to wildlife conservation) , but more importantly we never take more than what we can use….
Game is quickly and skillfully cleaned and never wasted , this shows that respect for game is a part of our own self respect as a hunter…. Finding pleasure in sharing game with others.
Now the UNETHICAL HUNTER , the TAKER , is the opposite of all that us ETHICAL HUNTERS , us GIVERS , stand for….they have no respect for themselves , the laws , the land , or the animals.
To us, the hunt is a deep and meaningful thing involving much more than a harvest .
To many of us it allows us to spend time with friends , talking , listening , and like a student wanting to learn, asking questions , trying to understand his/her animal….it’s behavior, it’s habitat, etc. , this allows the true hunter to accomplish the task with effectiveness, honor, and a sense of gratitude / elation when it all comes together…..
It’s what we feel is the driving force for most of the true and honest hunters out there.
To us , the hunt is an experience in learning self awareness, personal development , and about nature, and the game hunted , etc.., with respect…..
If hunting is to continue , these things have to be understood , valued , and communicated …..you can think of real hunters as Guides in a sense , we consider ourselves as “ professionals” in the guiding field, in that we “profess” a view defined to the ethical hunter……
We do it voluntarily , we share it, and we admonish each other when we don’t live up to the standards expected of us.
Why do we hunt?……Watch a Lab as it goes afield to retrieve the waterfowl and you’d understand a little bit better what goes on inside of all hunters as they walk into the woods or onto the mud flats to set out our decoys, triggering In hunters irrepressible excitement and pleasure.
It’s like quenching a thirst, scratching an itch….it seems to satisfy a deep , human need.
Hunting is basic to our natures. As long as people have populated the earth , they have taken the lives of other species to feed themselves.
In terms of human time , we’ve only recently domesticated animals; for most of our history , the meat people have eaten was taken from carcasses of wild animals they captured and killed.
Social anthropologists maintain that our unique and complicated social organization and language evolved because coordination and communication were necessary to successfully hunt large and dangerous game.
Hunting may also spurred our aesthetic impulses . Certainly , some of the first evidence we have of our species; artistic nature, manifested in cave paintings of Lascaux , France , were stylized representations of animals and the human hunters that pursued them.
When human life and so many other human qualities owe their existence to hunting , it seems preposterous that organized animal rights groups could claim hunting is inhumane .
Hunter’s need not to apologize for hunting. They follow their instinct and their part is clear and straightforward. Hunters allow no middlemen, salesman , marketing experts , chefs , or grocers to trick them into thinking that their lives don’t rely on death of animals. For Hunters , the formula is as simple as nature herself: an animal is harvested to feed the hungry.
Nor is it cruel. Game animals aren’t caged , fattened , bred , jammed together or raised on production lines. They live in the woods and wetlands , following the natural instincts of their species.
A hunter’s bullet may end a wild animal’s life. Animal Right’s activists often dwell on that exact moment , seeming to forget that death is the fate of all living things. A hunter’s bullet is usually clean and quick. Real hunters insist on it..
Thanks to hunters’ interest in maintaining sustainable populations of game animals and to the many dollars generated for wildlife management through license sales and special taxes on hunting equipment , the number of deer , turkey , squirrel , and other game species are stable and increasing. Other species have been brought back from the brink of extinction , such as the giant Canada goose.
Regulated hunting seasons and bag limits keep animal populations in check and prevent a repeating boom and bust a cycle of overabundance followed by mass starvation and disease ...
Hunting also brings into balance those who go afield.
Hunting rewards alertness , patience , self-restraint. It demands stealth , keen vision , a knowledge of the quarry and it’s environment. . Those who refuse to learn the ways of the woods are seldom successful.
Hunter’s could buy their meat in sanitized , foam and plastic containers from the stores, leaving the killing to others. By doing so , however , they’d sacrifice their sense of self-reliance , of individuality , of participation in the natural world.
Hunting provides many pleasures , including lifelong friendship (it’s why your daughters are friends), every part of hunting has it’s pleasures , from the planning , to the scouting , the hunt itself , It’s a time we can reflect on our lives , a time when we can be one with the land , the animals and our heavenly father…..
Here are some facts on Hunting:
There are measures that are taken to sterilize a deer herd , it costs $700. A deer per year….This is a costly task…………….
A healthy deer herd on suitable habitat can be reduced by as much as 40% with no ill effect on populations; hunters rarely take more than 15% . If not harvested , a deer herd can double in size in only two years , quickly depleting available food supplies , In a harsh winter , when an oversized herd depletes all available food , merciless death by slow starvation is inevitable .Predators attack the young and the hunger-weakened stragglers. Disease and parasites add to the toll. Most often , the end result is a weak , unhealthy herd containing far fewer deer than would be present if hunters had taken a reasonable surplus in the fall
Quail have an annual mortality rate of 75% to 80 % , whether they are hunted or not. Through license fees and taxes , hunters and anglers contribute and average of $3 million EACH DAY to wildlife conservation. Habitat improvement that benefits quail likewise helps, songbirds; land that is acquired and /or managed for deer or turkey also provides homes for foxes , bobcats , and other mammals and species of birds.
When the National Wild Turkey Federation was founded in 1973 , there were only 1.3 million turkeys throughout the united states.
Since then , that number has more than tripled and now stands at 5 million birds. NWTF has raised and spent more than $120 million in projects benefiting wild turkeys throughout the U.S. and Mexico and Canada.
Since it’s founding in 1937, Ducks Unlimited ( DU ) has raised more than a $1 billion , which has contributed to the conservation of more than 9.4 million acres of prime wildlife habitat in all fifty states , each of the Canadian provinces and in key areas of Mexico.
In the U.S. alone , DU has helped to conserve 2 million acres of waterfowl habitat , Some 900 species of wildlife live and flourish on DU projects , including many threatened or endangered species.
Hunting for the hungry is a program that helps feed the less fortunate and their families.
Another fact: wildlife is produced by nature without altering landscape. Nature doesn’t clear complex habitats, which are home to many species , to plant fields of corn , so as to fatten cattle .unlike the waste products from pork or chicken factories , the waste products of wildlife don’t pollute watersheds.
Wild food is grown without biocides or large inputs of petroleum , both of which are mainstays of modern agriculture. Biocides kill all sorts of wildlife - birds, rodents, reptiles , fish- and the extraction of petroleum causes displacement and deaths of Caribou, grizzlies , birds……..the list is long.
Producing organic vegetables also has a bloody price tag as well ...Deer , for example are routinely controlled so that the organic soybeans , apples , and salad greens can be grown successfully. Thus the purest of vegans can’t avoid indirectly killing wildlife In the process of eating!
Instead of denying the situation , hunting places one firmly in the midst of it .
Let’s talk about the Religious aspect of it too…….we’re woodsman like Nimrod , the mighty hunter.
We are patient, willing to sit as still as statues and freeze or smolder in the heat for hours, suppressing the urge to sneeze , yawn , or even scratch the many bites that we’ve accumulated since dawn.
Yet , we are doing something we love , even though it costs us hours of preparation time and lost sleep .When we’re in the field , we feel a sense of of destiny and fulfillment .Totally alive and very much in touch with the joy when in the field-something to be envied in a world with far too little joy.
There is a biblical, spiritual , and legal basis for hunting. It is a part of our heritage , our God given right , and hunters are not wanton killers. No hunter shall ever be ashamed of anything he does with the Lord.
We have God as our hunting companion , knowing that he will guide us and keep us safe….
“Thou shalt not kill” , There’s a vast difference between killing and murdering – the difference we all understand and support,.
Murder is wrong ,( and rawtsakh ) , the original word for murder . Nowhere in the Old Testiment is the word murder used in the connection with the killing of an animal . A totally different word is used when God talks about the killing of an animal , one only found in connection with killing as a sacrifice (shawkhat).
God , himself killed the first animal: ”unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins , and clothed them”.(genesis 3:21)
“ And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth…..into your hands are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you…..I have given you all things” (genesis9:2,3)
There is nothing to challenge the over-all view , set down in Genesis , that man is the pinnacle of creation , that all the other creatures have been delivered into his hands , and that we have his divine permission to kill and eat them”
When we’re in the woods, we get a chance to look around us praise him for his creations……
We give thanks- Everything we have in this world we owe to our heavenly Father. Our lives , our health , our families , friends , and our love for hunting and the outdoors would be nothing without God’s love and guidance., we know this.
We bring a scripture or two with and memorize it , we don’t want to waste time while out there.
We pray for family , anti’s , the animals, safety for both hunters and the hunted ……
It’s a time where we can reflect on our lives , the day, whatever we want…….
We hope that ya’ll have a better understanding of what a hunter is , who we are .
We aren’t out to change your views , just thought that if you were to get some input on some of the facts that you’d have an understanding about our world….. Thank you for taking the time out to read all of this……...and for taking the time to get to know your daughter’s better…….
If either one or both of you want to know about your daughters and the lives that they have chosen for themselves , please ,take a look at the issue through the eyes of those who know hunting for what it really is…..and hunter’s for who they are……..
The hunter’s heart: is a mystery to many……those who do not hunt often feel that it is cold, dark , and full of evil….. truly not the case…
It starts with Ethics…without ethics, man can be a licensed hunter and still be a poor sportsman…. The ethical hunter knows both the limits of their equipment and their shooting ability and always tries for a quick, clean harvest. In addition , the ethical hunter obeys all laws written and unwritten when hunting.
The ethical hunter treats game with respect before and after the shot ,we take pride in hunting and being hunters we always hunt in such a way that neither us or the game are shamed…
The ethical hunter will make every possible effort to help find lost game and will even abandon their own hunt to help others recover lost game……
We never take more than our legal limit of game ( bag limits made their first appearance in Iowa in 1878 and , by the end of the first century , 13 states had limited the amount of game that could be legally taken. Over the next 10 years , HUNTERS in 23 more states REQUESTED this approach to wildlife conservation) , but more importantly we never take more than what we can use….
Game is quickly and skillfully cleaned and never wasted , this shows that respect for game is a part of our own self respect as a hunter…. Finding pleasure in sharing game with others.
Now the UNETHICAL HUNTER , the TAKER , is the opposite of all that us ETHICAL HUNTERS , us GIVERS , stand for….they have no respect for themselves , the laws , the land , or the animals.
To us, the hunt is a deep and meaningful thing involving much more than a harvest .
To many of us it allows us to spend time with friends , talking , listening , and like a student wanting to learn, asking questions , trying to understand his/her animal….it’s behavior, it’s habitat, etc. , this allows the true hunter to accomplish the task with effectiveness, honor, and a sense of gratitude / elation when it all comes together…..
It’s what we feel is the driving force for most of the true and honest hunters out there.
To us , the hunt is an experience in learning self awareness, personal development , and about nature, and the game hunted , etc.., with respect…..
If hunting is to continue , these things have to be understood , valued , and communicated …..you can think of real hunters as Guides in a sense , we consider ourselves as “ professionals” in the guiding field, in that we “profess” a view defined to the ethical hunter……
We do it voluntarily , we share it, and we admonish each other when we don’t live up to the standards expected of us.
Why do we hunt?……Watch a Lab as it goes afield to retrieve the waterfowl and you’d understand a little bit better what goes on inside of all hunters as they walk into the woods or onto the mud flats to set out our decoys, triggering In hunters irrepressible excitement and pleasure.
It’s like quenching a thirst, scratching an itch….it seems to satisfy a deep , human need.
Hunting is basic to our natures. As long as people have populated the earth , they have taken the lives of other species to feed themselves.
In terms of human time , we’ve only recently domesticated animals; for most of our history , the meat people have eaten was taken from carcasses of wild animals they captured and killed.
Social anthropologists maintain that our unique and complicated social organization and language evolved because coordination and communication were necessary to successfully hunt large and dangerous game.
Hunting may also spurred our aesthetic impulses . Certainly , some of the first evidence we have of our species; artistic nature, manifested in cave paintings of Lascaux , France , were stylized representations of animals and the human hunters that pursued them.
When human life and so many other human qualities owe their existence to hunting , it seems preposterous that organized animal rights groups could claim hunting is inhumane .
Hunter’s need not to apologize for hunting. They follow their instinct and their part is clear and straightforward. Hunters allow no middlemen, salesman , marketing experts , chefs , or grocers to trick them into thinking that their lives don’t rely on death of animals. For Hunters , the formula is as simple as nature herself: an animal is harvested to feed the hungry.
Nor is it cruel. Game animals aren’t caged , fattened , bred , jammed together or raised on production lines. They live in the woods and wetlands , following the natural instincts of their species.
A hunter’s bullet may end a wild animal’s life. Animal Right’s activists often dwell on that exact moment , seeming to forget that death is the fate of all living things. A hunter’s bullet is usually clean and quick. Real hunters insist on it..
Thanks to hunters’ interest in maintaining sustainable populations of game animals and to the many dollars generated for wildlife management through license sales and special taxes on hunting equipment , the number of deer , turkey , squirrel , and other game species are stable and increasing. Other species have been brought back from the brink of extinction , such as the giant Canada goose.
Regulated hunting seasons and bag limits keep animal populations in check and prevent a repeating boom and bust a cycle of overabundance followed by mass starvation and disease ...
Hunting also brings into balance those who go afield.
Hunting rewards alertness , patience , self-restraint. It demands stealth , keen vision , a knowledge of the quarry and it’s environment. . Those who refuse to learn the ways of the woods are seldom successful.
Hunter’s could buy their meat in sanitized , foam and plastic containers from the stores, leaving the killing to others. By doing so , however , they’d sacrifice their sense of self-reliance , of individuality , of participation in the natural world.
Hunting provides many pleasures , including lifelong friendship (it’s why your daughters are friends), every part of hunting has it’s pleasures , from the planning , to the scouting , the hunt itself , It’s a time we can reflect on our lives , a time when we can be one with the land , the animals and our heavenly father…..
Here are some facts on Hunting:
There are measures that are taken to sterilize a deer herd , it costs $700. A deer per year….This is a costly task…………….
A healthy deer herd on suitable habitat can be reduced by as much as 40% with no ill effect on populations; hunters rarely take more than 15% . If not harvested , a deer herd can double in size in only two years , quickly depleting available food supplies , In a harsh winter , when an oversized herd depletes all available food , merciless death by slow starvation is inevitable .Predators attack the young and the hunger-weakened stragglers. Disease and parasites add to the toll. Most often , the end result is a weak , unhealthy herd containing far fewer deer than would be present if hunters had taken a reasonable surplus in the fall
Quail have an annual mortality rate of 75% to 80 % , whether they are hunted or not. Through license fees and taxes , hunters and anglers contribute and average of $3 million EACH DAY to wildlife conservation. Habitat improvement that benefits quail likewise helps, songbirds; land that is acquired and /or managed for deer or turkey also provides homes for foxes , bobcats , and other mammals and species of birds.
When the National Wild Turkey Federation was founded in 1973 , there were only 1.3 million turkeys throughout the united states.
Since then , that number has more than tripled and now stands at 5 million birds. NWTF has raised and spent more than $120 million in projects benefiting wild turkeys throughout the U.S. and Mexico and Canada.
Since it’s founding in 1937, Ducks Unlimited ( DU ) has raised more than a $1 billion , which has contributed to the conservation of more than 9.4 million acres of prime wildlife habitat in all fifty states , each of the Canadian provinces and in key areas of Mexico.
In the U.S. alone , DU has helped to conserve 2 million acres of waterfowl habitat , Some 900 species of wildlife live and flourish on DU projects , including many threatened or endangered species.
Hunting for the hungry is a program that helps feed the less fortunate and their families.
Another fact: wildlife is produced by nature without altering landscape. Nature doesn’t clear complex habitats, which are home to many species , to plant fields of corn , so as to fatten cattle .unlike the waste products from pork or chicken factories , the waste products of wildlife don’t pollute watersheds.
Wild food is grown without biocides or large inputs of petroleum , both of which are mainstays of modern agriculture. Biocides kill all sorts of wildlife - birds, rodents, reptiles , fish- and the extraction of petroleum causes displacement and deaths of Caribou, grizzlies , birds……..the list is long.
Producing organic vegetables also has a bloody price tag as well ...Deer , for example are routinely controlled so that the organic soybeans , apples , and salad greens can be grown successfully. Thus the purest of vegans can’t avoid indirectly killing wildlife In the process of eating!
Instead of denying the situation , hunting places one firmly in the midst of it .
Let’s talk about the Religious aspect of it too…….we’re woodsman like Nimrod , the mighty hunter.
We are patient, willing to sit as still as statues and freeze or smolder in the heat for hours, suppressing the urge to sneeze , yawn , or even scratch the many bites that we’ve accumulated since dawn.
Yet , we are doing something we love , even though it costs us hours of preparation time and lost sleep .When we’re in the field , we feel a sense of of destiny and fulfillment .Totally alive and very much in touch with the joy when in the field-something to be envied in a world with far too little joy.
There is a biblical, spiritual , and legal basis for hunting. It is a part of our heritage , our God given right , and hunters are not wanton killers. No hunter shall ever be ashamed of anything he does with the Lord.
We have God as our hunting companion , knowing that he will guide us and keep us safe….
“Thou shalt not kill” , There’s a vast difference between killing and murdering – the difference we all understand and support,.
Murder is wrong ,( and rawtsakh ) , the original word for murder . Nowhere in the Old Testiment is the word murder used in the connection with the killing of an animal . A totally different word is used when God talks about the killing of an animal , one only found in connection with killing as a sacrifice (shawkhat).
God , himself killed the first animal: ”unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make coats of skins , and clothed them”.(genesis 3:21)
“ And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth…..into your hands are they delivered. Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you…..I have given you all things” (genesis9:2,3)
There is nothing to challenge the over-all view , set down in Genesis , that man is the pinnacle of creation , that all the other creatures have been delivered into his hands , and that we have his divine permission to kill and eat them”
When we’re in the woods, we get a chance to look around us praise him for his creations……
We give thanks- Everything we have in this world we owe to our heavenly Father. Our lives , our health , our families , friends , and our love for hunting and the outdoors would be nothing without God’s love and guidance., we know this.
We bring a scripture or two with and memorize it , we don’t want to waste time while out there.
We pray for family , anti’s , the animals, safety for both hunters and the hunted ……
It’s a time where we can reflect on our lives , the day, whatever we want…….
We hope that ya’ll have a better understanding of what a hunter is , who we are .
We aren’t out to change your views , just thought that if you were to get some input on some of the facts that you’d have an understanding about our world….. Thank you for taking the time out to read all of this……...and for taking the time to get to know your daughter’s better…….
10-12-2004, 04:21 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dahlonega Ga. USA
Posts: 1,626
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
After you have exhausted logic and the various facts presented to support hunting, you will find that he still will not be satisfied. Therefore your best defense becomes a good offense, demand that he explain and justify his views, not with rhetoric, but with fact. If he brings up something you cannot refute with facts, do not try to BS your way through it, but say, I will check that out and get back to you on it, then contact a wildlife biologist or check it out at the library or on the net. Use facts, not opinion. Do not allow him to be the agressor any more, demand that he back up everything he states with fact. If all else fails, you may say (in a subtle manner) that you believe (an opinion which you have the right to express) antis suffer from various personality disorders which cause them to be the way they are and that you are sorry about that but it's just the way things are. You may not be welcome in his presence anymore but stuff happens.
10-12-2004, 07:31 AM
#35
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 90
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
ORIGINAL: bob d
he probably cannot understand you if you talk like you write because i don't know what the hell you typed . get spellcheck
he probably cannot understand you if you talk like you write because i don't know what the hell you typed . get spellcheck
i'm tellin you what. i completey lost it and cracked up when I read what Bob D wrote. Very funny man! Thanks for the laugh. I needed it
10-15-2004, 08:13 PM
#36
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Cumming, Ga.
Posts: 32
RE: My girlfriends uncle thinks hunting is wrong
In my experience, the fact that a supposed "anti-hunter" wants to know more about this is refreshing, indeed. Whether we like it or not, we're all ambassadors of our sport and to educate is a responsibility that we all must share. There are large numbers of well-funded organizations (humane society, PETA, etc.) who would like to ban all hunting on public lands if they can get their way. I grew up with a very non-hunting family. My dad never wanted me to hunt or even own a firearm. He served in the military and had familiarity with them, he just chose not to let us have them. I eventually got an air rifle and had other opportunities to learn marksmanship in scouts. I had to wait until I was out on my own to engage in the shooting sports. Enough of me, though. From every college I've ever been to, the anti-hunting and anti-gun folks seem to have no problems being represented, and the media only portrays hunters as beer-swilling fools shooting up anything that moves. Granted there are a few of those around, and they always manage to interview them for the newscasts. But the fact remains that we live in a lop-sided ecosystem where the predators are no longer present to control the burgeoning numbers of deer and other animals. Ironically, as forest lands are bulldozed, new habitats are created for the deer, as all that fescue they plant is just yummy to the deer. They enjoy protected status from homeowners who think its cool to have deer in the subdivisions. They breed and move across roadways, where they are killed not by deer rifles or slug guns, but by a "chevy-06" with disastrous results for all. They need checks on their population, we can stand an outing in the field, and the tasty venison ain't so bad, either. To explain the necessity of hunting might fall on deaf ears to a general population that thinks that the government can relocate them. Where? Deer are everywhere. Nationwide. Hawaii, too. (No, they don't shoot 'em off of surfboards) Makes you wonder if Realtree makes a camo pattern that looks like a Hawaiian shirt. Anyway, we have a new world order that puts us as the apex predator on the land. Some are more comfortable with that status than others. We will hunt, the rest will complain. But anyone who eats fish, meat or fowl has killed either directly, or they paid someone else to do it for them in a factory. Present your girlfriend's uncle with this and challenge him to accompany you on a hunt. He'll either respect you or he'll hate you, but you gotta be the one to give the olive branch. If he won't, then chalk it up to just another out-of-touch individual trying to dictate their own world view on the rest of us. Good luck. I take it your girlfriend must be something special for you to even want to try to deal with this issue!
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