noidurism

i have no and never will have any desire,need,want to go hunting in another country. and as far as hunting in the states, i would rather hunt public lands than to pay for a guided hunt. i'm not rich(actually poor) but even if i was rich i wouldn't, that's just the way i feel and am. i'm not a trophy hunter either. yes it would be nice to get a big buck, but i'll never pay someone to get it. my biggest buck to date is a 1 1/2 yr. 6pt. and was happy to get that. i hold out on smaller bucks if i can(until near the end of season). i am also happy with getting does. i got 3 does this past season and no buck. some day i'll get a big buck and it will be done on my own.

crokit

Supply and demand. That's just the way it is.

bigcountry

You know I have been two Canada and several states hunting. I used to complain about hunt costs. But I started doing some figureing. These guides/outfitters are not making much money. I bet when its said and done, they make a lot less than people on this board. I went with the same guide in Newfoundland a few times, and let me tell ya, that guy lives in a shack, and drives a piece of crap. He barely has money to get a decent pair of binocs.

You got to ask yourself if that guide really deserves so much less money than you make.

podunk kennels

Your totally right, i guide hogs and spring gobbler for an outfitter in central florida and after its all over he makes as much as I do at my regular job but he has to live like a nomad between fl and 5 western states all year long. I make 75 a day for guiding but i do get tips. Sometimes even that aint much.

SJAdventures

It's America, if you don't like don't do it.

ACutting

For anyone on this that is against high fenced operations. Do you use scent products? Do you use camoflouge? If so you might want to stop 90% of those products are developed by and tested on high fenced operations. Also the high fenced hunting operations don't affect you from hunting the way you want to hunt so why are you so against them? If anything you should be for them just on the principle basis that they are a legal form of hunting that promotes the industry. Think about where most of the research on deer hunting comes from. Where do you think food plots were developed? How do you think they figured out the nutritional needs of the deer and so on? High fenced operations doing research studies on these animals. No one is say that you have to hunt at one of these ranches. All I am saying is there is no need to bash them. I understand that the hunting trophy fee's upset some hunters. That is fine. Some hunters like them. There is no reason to have this thread going like it is. If you don't like the trophy fees don't hunt at operations that have them. If you don't like the concept of hunting in a high fenced area, then don't. I can tell you from experience however that everyone who thinks that high fenced operations do not provide a true hunting experience are wrong. And you can't argue with me on this because you obviously haven't been to one if you are going to try to argue with me. Some of the hardest hunting comes in a high fenced area because the deer are well away of the human pressure. They've adapted to it. That doesn't mean there are not unethical places out there. But any ethic high fenced ranch will provide you an enjoyable true hunting experience. It is not shooting fish in a barrell as many of you think it is. I was very skeptical the first time I went.

To those of you who think that outfitters and hunting ranches make alot of money they don't. I have two friends that are outfitters and I made more money than they did when I was selling cars. Yeah the prices seem high but there is alot of overhead. Leasing land is not cheap, paying guides is not cheap, having insurance is not cheap, advertising is not cheap. Think about how many hunters are actually taken out in one season. Its not very many Assuming that you are paying say $2,000/hunter and lets say he has a good year and 50 hunters book hunts with him and actually show up. Thats $100,000 gross sales now take off all the stuff previously mentioned and whats left?

Also we are a capitalistic society. People can charge what they want to charge and the market will dictate who survives and who doesn't. There is nothing wrong with charging trophy fees for hunts. The hunts who want to hunt there will pay them. Those of you who don't won't hunt there. There are other outfitters available that may not charge a trophy fee and that is where you will end up. Its different ways of doing business. Is one way better then the other? Honestly couldn't tell you both guys seem to make the same money at the end of the year. The clients are happy at both places.

All in all stop complaining about the trophy fee's if you don't like them don't hunt there. But don't bash the people that do. Support all ethical hunters and ways of hunting even if it is different than the way you hunt. Hunters make up a small portion of the population and it will take all of us to keep our sport alive.

diamondrack

I believe that hunting with a outfitter that has land with FREE-Ranging animals is completely different then an outfit that is HIGH-fenced.. I can understand that a free-range outfit probably doesn't make that much money after purchasing/leasing land, land management, treestands, paying guides, lodging, meals, supplies, etc.. I mean they probably only profit about 25% of what is charged per person to hunt their properties.. NOW on the other hand, a high-fenced oufit that charges trophy-fees upwards of 25K 100% makes a hell of lot more money.. Honestly one hunter probably pays for most of the things they need to manage their pets... Regardless as what you say Acutting, my theory of hunting does not involve caged in animals, sorry... No matter how much you want to expain it there is a difference between frre-ranging and high-fenced animals.. How can you say that they are more difficult or as you mentioned "hard" hunting?? Are you kinding me!! After I read that I laughed my tail off..

Risasi

I believe the issue is use of the term "hunting". I've seen 12 year old girls shooting 160 class bucks. Is she really a hunter because she sat in a heated and enclosed stand, was handed a rifle, and told "shoot that one". Not hardly. Don't even attempt to argue. Drop her off in the middle of 10,000 acres and see how much "hunting" she does.

She's shooting deer, not hunting them. Big difference.

podunk kennels

But the point is high fence hunters wether we agree with em or not are on our side as far as hunters advocacy. It is still a free country and people should be able to" hunt" however they want. If paying to shoot a pen raised deer is what your into then have at em, its just not my cup of tea. Against the ANTI'S we are all "HUNTERS" and we need all the support we can get be you a dog hunter, still hunter, prairie dog hunter, hell if you sight your BB gun in on lizards in the backyard we could use you too.

ACutting

I find it interesting that you guys all seem to think that hunting at a high fenced hunting area is shooting fish in a barrell. Yet none of you have been to one it appears. I have to give thanks to Podunk Kennels for being right on. As far as hunting goes in a high fenced area the hunt can be as challening or as unchallenging as you want it to be. That is why the clients go to those type of places. Many of these places have over a square mile of land with in the boundries. That is more than sufficient for any animal to evade a hunter. And as far as the comment on Pen Raised deer many places the deer naturally breed with in the hunting area. So the animals are born in the area and die in the area. And also on the comment to the guy who said that the high fenced owners make alot more money on than a free range outfitter that is incorrect as well. I know quite a few preserve owners and trust me they make less than I do. That 25k dollar deer wasnt free. They have the cost of bringing in new genetics into their area. A typical preserve owner will have $2500-$3500 in every deer out there bucks and does. So that 140 inch that they sell for $2195 they are losing money on that deer. The doe hunts at $500 dollars they are losing money on those as well. This isn't always the case but its pretty normal. So do the math how many deer do you think they are selling that are 25k? Not as many as the 140 deer. So you are thinking then why don't they just offer the hunts at a fixed one cost rate for any deer. Well thats simple everyone wants the biggest deer possible. You'd have more hunters upset at the fact they didn't get that 200" deer. So the pricing prevents this from happening. Its simple laws of economics. Supply is low so price is high. Again though I understand high fenced hunting is not for everyone. I respect that so in turn I require respect from you as well. High fenced hunting is not going to take away the way you like hunting. If anything they are going to help maintain your way of hunting because they have more at risk and more to fight for than you do because that is their way of life. With out hunting they don't make money. They are on your side so why don't you get on their side. No one is going to force you to hunting in a high fenced area.