dws178

I shoot the 150 grain accubond in my 300 WSM and have had great success. Flat shooting and very good penetration. It's the complete package I think. Has worked on african plains game, mountain goat, alot of deer and hogs and did the trick on every one.

Champlain Islander

Both are great bullets but for many the TSX is inherently more accurate than the NP.

SwampCollie

Thats sort of a generalized assumption. Me personally, I shoot TSX bullets exclusively in my handloads. I absolutely love them. But, thats not to knock the Partition, because its a fantastic bullet as well.

I think the one bullet that I have seen shoot well out of more guns than any other is the Sierra Game King. Its a great little bullet, but I personally would not use it out of a .270 on large game. The jacket is a little too thin, and with the speeds created by a .270, it might be prone to cratering a bit much.

Since you are shooting a .270, which is pretty fast, and will be using it on some plus sized animals, I would go with the TSX. Hard to find a tougher expandable bullet on the market. In that same class I'd put the Swift A-Frames (which is basically a bonded, solid base NP) and the Sciroccos (which is a tougher Accubond). All three are pricey compared to the other market offerings, but if there is one place to spend the extra money when it comes to hunting is on the bullets and/or the scope.

LebeauHunter

This is not quite on point, but I'm curious. I'm pretty sure the poster said he was whitetail hunting, but I have seen a lot of responses for moose, etc.

I also shoot a 270 WSM and have been using 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips with 100% success (on about 5 deer so far with this gun and none ran beyond 10 yards). It is also accurate at the range. Isn't the Barnes a little much for whitetail (solid brass)? If I knew I was going to hit a deer in the shoulder I would want the Barnes, but on a well placed shot wouldn't the Barnes blow right through the deer with less damage than the BT?

I'm sure there have probably been a million threads about the BTs being fragile, especially for speeds of 270WSM, but I heard they had beefed up the outside of the cartridge, and that is also why I'm shooting 150 grain.
For whitetail, I haven't seen any reason to switch.

SwampCollie

Lebeau:

Original post lists game as whitetail, moose and elk.

I totally see where you are coming from about the solid copper bullets on whitetails, and understand your point with ballistic tips as well. This is really a personal preference thing.

The TSX bullets don't just blow through the deer doing little damage, and the BTs will do MUCH more damage on impact (they are designed to work that way). At slower velocites/longer ranges, the BT bullet is the bees-knees, it expands very reliably. But, as you hinted at, its fairly fragile. Little more than a thin jacketed hollow point with a plastic nose cone for better flight/higher BC. It was of course designed as a varmint bullet, and designed to explode.

This brings us to a crossroads and you sort of have to choose a school of thought. I like the guarenteed to make it to and through the vitals...two holes are better than one school. Since I mainly shoot through the top of the shoulder to take the spine anyway, I need to know that my bullet will make it through. I have shot many deer with a BT in the same spot, and never really had an issue (at least not that cost me a deer). But I did have a few that didn't make it through and cratered.

You are probably of the massive damage school. This is none the less effective, and for most folks who shoot deer right behind the shoulder (which is a fine place) then rapid expanding bullets are ususally the order of the day on whitetails.

The issue with BTs, is that they usuallycrater at very high speeds, which are created by either: A) fast shooting rifles (the .270WSM amoung them) B) VERY close ranges (common with moose and eastern white-tails) or C) Both. Take a .270 WSM with a 130gr BT and have a go at a deer at 50 yards. That bullet will blow up on impact. It will kill the deer, no doubt, if you hit it properly...but you may very well not get an exit wound (depending on angle). If you are shooting deer behind the shoulder, they are usually going to run, and as we know from bow-hunting, two holes are better than one. Thats why I like the TSX bullets so much.

LebeauHunter

SC,

Thanks for detailed response. I don't know about all that spine shooting stuff (new to me). I do know that if you shoot a little high behind the shoulder that the deer seem to drop in their tracks, I think b/c of the massive initial force against the bone. Is that what you are talking about?

Yes, I am sort of a big damage person b/c usually I hit where (or near) I am supposed to. I don't really value ribs that much, and it usually doesn't tear up tenderloin, backstrap, and front shoulders if you hit in the right spot. At an angle (quartering towards me) I have had BT disintegrate and not exit, but cause massive internal damage and drop the deer. I'm gonna stick with them until they fail me (always blame equipment eh?).

Any truth to the fact that recently to address problems the BT has been beefed up? Also, I'm shooting the 150 grains and not the 130s, don't really know why, except I thought that 130 would be even faster and more chance of disintegration. Any thoughts?

skeeter 7MM

Which ever bullet your rifle likes better, as they are both up to the task you have in mind and excellent bullets. I am a nosler fan but when it comes to moose and elk the TSX is now my bullet of choice. I personally use a light for grain bullet - 140gr TSXin my 7mm rem mag and it performance has been IMPRESSIVE/text book. I like the fact it pentrates/retains weight while still creating a good wound channel and wastes minimal meat on raking or shoulder shots. Accuracy has been superb with the tsx to boot. Only recovered one TSX bullet thus far from a bull moose and expansion was over double the diameter with weight retention in excess of 90%, this after busting the opposite shoulder of a bull moose at high MV. 3 Bull elk and another bull moose were pass thru's, making up the rest of the game accounted for with the 140 TSX for me personally(all casesproduced torched vitals and animals well within 100 yards after the single hits).

SwampCollie

I haven't heard anything about them beefing them up. But that would make sense. I remember shooting some of the first ones that came out. 150gr out of a 30-06. Handloads. Those things where nothing short of cruise missles. I quite litterally took a doe's head off with one doing some culling. So compared to the original's that I remember, I think they have beefed them up some. Deer ribs really are not worth much. The reason that a deer shot through the shoulder drops, is pretty much as you said, only its not really from the shock. If you take his tires out from under him...he can't drive off...so taking both shoulders does the trick. Also (and this is why I like solid copper bullets) shooting through that scapula is like setting off a claymore mine inside a deer's body. All those bone chips are like shrapnel. But the deer will drop most often because of the spinal colum being cut. It effects the back of the deer first, which is why they go down back end first. The feet usually roll up underneath them, just as if they were bedded down. If they go down head first....watch'em. Usually means you hit them a bit too high...and I have had a few come back to life and need a second helping. User error.

As far as shock goes...thats another debate entirely...but I'm on the fence about it. There is some sort of "shock" that passes when a bullet hits a deer...I think it enough to rupture blood vessels (infact....I know it does...thats what that black jelly is around the entrance/exit holes), but other than causing some hemmoriaging, it doesn't effect a deer on a mental level...and its not enough force to knock it off its feet. So its sort of a mix of both lines of thought you so often hear about.

LebeauHunter

SC,

Thanks again for taking time to reply. I hear you on the scapula shot, but I've seen the same thing with BT. It's like you struck the deer with a bolt of lightning. A little twitching, but the deer drops like a sack of potatoes. I was told to shoot towards the back of the shoulder (basically upper left of vitals if I'm picturing it right). Did it on a doe and she dropped where she stood. Not from no wheels, b/c then she would have been struggling. I think your right that it isn't "shock," but the actual bone shattering going on. Anyway, gruesome topic to write about. [&:]

If I ever get around to hunting bigger things (which I hope is in my future), I've got the Barnes in mind though. Looks like a sturdy performer.

SwampCollie

Yeah its a little bit PG-13, but its part of the game. The TSX is getting raving reviews from the PHs I know in Africa. They just love the thing. The benefits of a solid with the big wound channels of an expandable. African game is WAY tougher than what we have domestically. Dropping an African animal where it stands is nearly always due to a head/spinal shot. It seems the only way to turn them off like a light...its to cut the cord so to speak.

About the BTs and dropping deer; when you are shooting at the back of the vitals, you are taking out the upper portions of the lungs, liver, and likely most of the arteries and veins that run near the backbone (unless you hit high and get the spine itself). That the BT expands so rapidly, coupled with the fact that lungs are really little more than a massive system of capilaries and are slam full of blood (maybe as much as half the blood in the animal), I suspect the animal passes out (if you can call it that) from a rapid loss of blood pressure. That gallon jug full of water we have all seen being shot with a rifle and exploding like a water balloon is a fairly good depeiction of what a rapid expanding bullet will do to the lungs of a deer. The only issue I would have with that shot to the back of the vitals, is that if your shot does go high, or does go back, you have either shot directly through the backstraps, or worse by shooting too far aft, gut shot the animal. No doubt, you may well get the liver too, which will kill the animal, but a deer with a ruptured liver can live for quite some time...at least compared to lung/heart shot deer. It can take up to a couple of hours to kick off, depending on how bad/good you got the liver and what else you got with it.

One way or another though, if you get both lungs (no matter where), that animal has about 15 seconds until its off to the big corn pile in the sky. But, as we have all no doubt seen, a deer can go some distance in 15 seconds, and if you have a river or swamp near your stand....thats right where he's headed.

Thats the reason I like the front of the shoulder/base of the neck....everything runs together right there. Its dropping the bomb on grand central station. If you hit forward, you will still catch the spine, major arteries, wind pipe. Low, you are going through the shoulder and taking out the archialbracial arterty (pardon the spelling), the corrodied arterty and the jugluar vein as they leave/return to the heart. High, you will either miss entirely, or hit close enough to the back that it will knock the deer down almost like you did it right...but watch'em...thats where you can get burned. But, that most likely will NOT kill the deer. As long as you don't hit bone..its just a muscle hit. If you shoot too far back....well...thats right behind the shoulder, which is where most people shoot deer anyway..and you can read about that in the second paragraph.

I just like having two holes instead of just one in the deer. Not that I have to track many of them with that shot....but....it takes a little studying and practice to perfect. There again though...the margin for error in any direction is fairly as safe as any where on the animal. I'll see if I can find a good picture of a cutaway, as that will better explain exactly what I'm talking about.