NRA does do for hunters....
03-02-2007, 04:08 PM
#11
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,780
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
What's the matter, Tryk - can't respond to my assertions, so you have to get personal? Nice.
LOL at first I thought you double posted, but I see your imaturity is rearing it's ugly head once again. And in public! Way too funny
By the way if and when you respond to some of my assertions then I might consider reponses to your drivel.
03-02-2007, 04:23 PM
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie, Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,780
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
MORE Relationships between the NRA and Hunters............
Supported lowering minimum age requirements to encourage new hunters
Supported conservation programs on farm lands that improve wildlife habitat
Supported "OPEN FIELDS", state programs that provide incentives to land owners who open their to hunters and anglers
Supported the Pittman Robertson Act to increase oversight and accountability of fund managers
Supported Federal Legislation to open up huntingoppourtunities for disabled Americans
Stopped onerous law enforcement regulations thet threatened hunting on millions of acres and federal lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management
Advocated for federal agencies' use of hunters when game populations need to be reducedoutside of hunting season
Signed a partnership agreement withthree federal land management agencies and 39 NGO's to protect,support and enhance acess on public lands
Should I go on?
Here's more.http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/NRA_hunting.pdf
Oh I forgot! We are supposed to believe that the NRA programs and websites and magazines and monies donated are all just a scam of some sort. Totally laughable and you'd have to be purposely closing your eyes due to a political or other agenda. It's a plain as the nose on your face. There is a connection between the NRA and Hunters, besides the Second Amendment.
Supported lowering minimum age requirements to encourage new hunters
Supported conservation programs on farm lands that improve wildlife habitat
Supported "OPEN FIELDS", state programs that provide incentives to land owners who open their to hunters and anglers
Supported the Pittman Robertson Act to increase oversight and accountability of fund managers
Supported Federal Legislation to open up huntingoppourtunities for disabled Americans
Stopped onerous law enforcement regulations thet threatened hunting on millions of acres and federal lands managed by the Bureau of Land Management
Advocated for federal agencies' use of hunters when game populations need to be reducedoutside of hunting season
Signed a partnership agreement withthree federal land management agencies and 39 NGO's to protect,support and enhance acess on public lands
Should I go on?
Here's more.http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/NRA_hunting.pdf
Oh I forgot! We are supposed to believe that the NRA programs and websites and magazines and monies donated are all just a scam of some sort. Totally laughable and you'd have to be purposely closing your eyes due to a political or other agenda. It's a plain as the nose on your face. There is a connection between the NRA and Hunters, besides the Second Amendment.
03-02-2007, 07:42 PM
#14
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: California
Posts: 896
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
Even though I live in California which has fairly restrictive gun control laws, by far my biggest frustration is not the ability to buy a firearmbut finding a quality place to hunt. I was once an NRA member but their endless pleas for money becameincreasingly annoying. Before I went to medical school I was a Foreign Service Officer with the U.S. Department of State and when the "jack booted thugs" remark was made I decided I did not want to be associated with an organization that felt that way towardsmy co-workers and myself.
I insteadhave joined Ducks Unlimited. DU does much more for hunters than the NRA does, and I can be assured that my contributions to DU are going to be used in a way that will provide more game and more places to hunt. I am not indifferent toSecond Ammendment concerns but from my vantage point the biggest threat to the future of hunting is not loss of access to guns but the disapearance of placesfor average peopleto hunt.
Caldoc
I insteadhave joined Ducks Unlimited. DU does much more for hunters than the NRA does, and I can be assured that my contributions to DU are going to be used in a way that will provide more game and more places to hunt. I am not indifferent toSecond Ammendment concerns but from my vantage point the biggest threat to the future of hunting is not loss of access to guns but the disapearance of placesfor average peopleto hunt.
Caldoc
03-02-2007, 07:57 PM
#15
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RE: NRA does do for hunters....
I respect your view and can understand your frustration with the requests for donations. But that is a necessary part of defending and supporting our causes. Noone is going to automatically just send in extra dollars without some sort of solicitation. It is very simple to call and ask them to place your name and membership # on the Do Not Solicit list. I can also understand that the DU organization is your choice of an organization to support, but no way do they spend as much or lobby as much in congress for hunters than does the NRA.
DU is primarily a wetlands and waterfowl organization. Some of what they support and do will benefit other game species , but no comparison can be made in dollars spent on various aspects of hunting and conservation and education.
DU is primarily a wetlands and waterfowl organization. Some of what they support and do will benefit other game species , but no comparison can be made in dollars spent on various aspects of hunting and conservation and education.
03-02-2007, 11:30 PM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,181
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
CalDoc: While the term "Jack Booted Thugs" may have been a tad over the top, it didn't refer to anyone who worked for the State Department. That was a reference to certainBATF agents and in light of their participation in the Branch Davidian and Weaver incidents, wasprobably afair description of some of their tactics. After all, who, other than a jack booted thug sniper, wouldshoot a woman holding a baby in the back?
A little perspective on the JBT comment, from a "liberal" writer:
A little perspective on the JBT comment, from a "liberal" writer:
The Ethical Spectacle, July 1995, http://www.spectacle.org
Defending NRA Rhetoric
A lot of fuss was made after the the Oklahoma City bombing about the NRA's use of phrases like "jack-booted thugs" to describe federal agents. The thesis was that the NRA was promoting violence against federal agents by demonizing them with this kind of rhetoric.
Now, I believe that the NRA is a dangerous and dishonest organization, because of where it spends its money and the laws that it supports. So I was ready to jump on that bandwagon, when I realized that those bashing the NRA for the "jackbooted thugs" quote were laboring under an immense double standard.
In a recent article, I called the CIA a "serial killer in the basement of government". There is no moral difference between this statement and the NRA's "jackbooted thugs". The only argument that I can think of, that I am not knowingly addressing an audience of gun owners and the NRA is, won't wash. The minute we start trying to differntiate identical speech based on the audience it is addressed to, we are in a world of double standards. I believe in the elimination of double standards, not their promotion.
Did I make a mistake with my "serial killer" rhetoric? I don't believe so. I think the statement is well within the borders of normal, lively expression of strongly held beliefs. So is "jackbooted thugs."
No-one bashed me for my "serial killer" remark, and those criticizing NRA conveniently forget that BATF, the target of the "thugs" remark, was badly out of control in both the Branch Davidian and Weaver incidents. Most of us would likely welcome an investigation into the abuses of a law enforcement agency, if we weren't so fearful that a far right wing agenda was being advanced in the process. But it is a strange day when the left in America defends police brutality and the abuse of power. Unlike the NRA, I believe Randy Weaver was-- is--a criminal. But he was entitled to his day in court. The sniper killing of his unarmed wife, with her baby in her arms, was shocking. The FBI should have to explain it. If it is not murder, it is at least homicide committed in gross negligence of human life. To defend the rights only of criminals and suspects precious to the left, and to allow BATF and the FBI to have a field day with those of the far right, mires us in an unconscionable double standard.
Defending NRA Rhetoric
A lot of fuss was made after the the Oklahoma City bombing about the NRA's use of phrases like "jack-booted thugs" to describe federal agents. The thesis was that the NRA was promoting violence against federal agents by demonizing them with this kind of rhetoric.
Now, I believe that the NRA is a dangerous and dishonest organization, because of where it spends its money and the laws that it supports. So I was ready to jump on that bandwagon, when I realized that those bashing the NRA for the "jackbooted thugs" quote were laboring under an immense double standard.
In a recent article, I called the CIA a "serial killer in the basement of government". There is no moral difference between this statement and the NRA's "jackbooted thugs". The only argument that I can think of, that I am not knowingly addressing an audience of gun owners and the NRA is, won't wash. The minute we start trying to differntiate identical speech based on the audience it is addressed to, we are in a world of double standards. I believe in the elimination of double standards, not their promotion.
Did I make a mistake with my "serial killer" rhetoric? I don't believe so. I think the statement is well within the borders of normal, lively expression of strongly held beliefs. So is "jackbooted thugs."
No-one bashed me for my "serial killer" remark, and those criticizing NRA conveniently forget that BATF, the target of the "thugs" remark, was badly out of control in both the Branch Davidian and Weaver incidents. Most of us would likely welcome an investigation into the abuses of a law enforcement agency, if we weren't so fearful that a far right wing agenda was being advanced in the process. But it is a strange day when the left in America defends police brutality and the abuse of power. Unlike the NRA, I believe Randy Weaver was-- is--a criminal. But he was entitled to his day in court. The sniper killing of his unarmed wife, with her baby in her arms, was shocking. The FBI should have to explain it. If it is not murder, it is at least homicide committed in gross negligence of human life. To defend the rights only of criminals and suspects precious to the left, and to allow BATF and the FBI to have a field day with those of the far right, mires us in an unconscionable double standard.
03-07-2007, 11:38 AM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North Central Iowa
Posts: 1,642
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
I have to agree with tryk on this one. As far as DU, PF, and NWTF (which i am a member of as well as the NRA), well
have you ever tried shooting a duck with a bow? I havent relpied to make someone mad or to start a fight just to try to open a few eyes.
DU does much more for hunters than the NRA does
03-07-2007, 01:13 PM
#18
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location:
Posts: 164
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
I am no longer a NRA member, I was for over 10 years until they got worst thana tV evangelist trying to get every dime thier members have.
So I put my time and money it to groups like DU and the NWTF. I servied on the local commitee on both and was I Jakes Coordinator for 3 years, We put on game brid hunts and would have 40 to 60 kids show up at these hunts, a good number of these Kids were with single Mothers and they told us that this was the only way thier kids would ever get to hunt.
We saw the local NRA rep. one time.
Now Zumbo said he could not under stand wye anyone would use a AK-47 or a AR-15 to hunt Praire dogs and Coyotes or any other Black gun! so that happens? out comes the Jack booted thugs to destory him and any onewho may support him.
Zumbo was one of the NRA biggest supports, He has helped generations of kids learn about hunting and shooting.
If I was a NRA member I'd hang my head in shame!
So I put my time and money it to groups like DU and the NWTF. I servied on the local commitee on both and was I Jakes Coordinator for 3 years, We put on game brid hunts and would have 40 to 60 kids show up at these hunts, a good number of these Kids were with single Mothers and they told us that this was the only way thier kids would ever get to hunt.
We saw the local NRA rep. one time.
Now Zumbo said he could not under stand wye anyone would use a AK-47 or a AR-15 to hunt Praire dogs and Coyotes or any other Black gun! so that happens? out comes the Jack booted thugs to destory him and any onewho may support him.
Zumbo was one of the NRA biggest supports, He has helped generations of kids learn about hunting and shooting.
If I was a NRA member I'd hang my head in shame!
03-07-2007, 03:01 PM
#19
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
Good points Lost. I've worked on several pro-bono environmental initiatives in law school, and I can assure you that there was never an NRA dollar that trickled our way for those efforts. I've also worked with DU, NWTF and Pheasants Forever - again, I've never heard any of those guys mention NRA funding. Why? Because there is none.
Caldoc -Good points. Many donors losesight of the fact thatmany of the NRA's key funded initiativesactually contravene the interests ofstate and local law enforcement (i.e.heightened registration requirements, expansive criminal background checks, tighter gun transfer laws, etc..). I just can't see donating to an organization that undermines the efforts of law enforcement,indirectly causing taxpayer dollars to be wasted in courtfighting thesebattles.
I would urge ANY NRA member who wants to see his/her donations directed at pro-hunting initiatives or conservation efforts, to discontinue their membership and join a credible, proven huntingorganization (Izaak Walton, SCI, NWTF, DU, PF, etc..)or even donate to your state's fish and game commission (earmarking your donations to be used for public-access land or whatever program that you find most important). Your dollars will go a lot further.
If you think I'm lying, call your local Pheasants Forever chapter and ask them how many birds were ever paid for by the NRA. Or maybe ask how many prizes were ever donated at a NWTF event by the NRA. Zero.
Caldoc -Good points. Many donors losesight of the fact thatmany of the NRA's key funded initiativesactually contravene the interests ofstate and local law enforcement (i.e.heightened registration requirements, expansive criminal background checks, tighter gun transfer laws, etc..). I just can't see donating to an organization that undermines the efforts of law enforcement,indirectly causing taxpayer dollars to be wasted in courtfighting thesebattles.
I would urge ANY NRA member who wants to see his/her donations directed at pro-hunting initiatives or conservation efforts, to discontinue their membership and join a credible, proven huntingorganization (Izaak Walton, SCI, NWTF, DU, PF, etc..)or even donate to your state's fish and game commission (earmarking your donations to be used for public-access land or whatever program that you find most important). Your dollars will go a lot further.
If you think I'm lying, call your local Pheasants Forever chapter and ask them how many birds were ever paid for by the NRA. Or maybe ask how many prizes were ever donated at a NWTF event by the NRA. Zero.
03-07-2007, 03:16 PM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Central Illinois
Posts: 863
RE: NRA does do for hunters....
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Good points Lost. I've worked on several pro-bono environmental initiatives in law school, and I can assure you that there was never an NRA dollar that trickled our way for those efforts. I've also worked with DU, NWTF and Pheasants Forever - again, I've never heard any of those guys mention NRA funding. Why? Because there is none.
Caldoc -Good points. Many donors losesight of the fact thatmany of the NRA's key funded initiativesactually contravene the interests ofstate and local law enforcement (i.e.heightened registration requirements, expansive criminal background checks, tighter gun transfer laws, etc..). I just can't see donating to an organization that undermines the efforts of law enforcement,indirectly causing taxpayer dollars to be wasted in courtfighting thesebattles.
I would urge ANY NRA member who wants to see his/her donations directed at pro-hunting initiatives or conservation efforts, to discontinue their membership and join a credible, proven huntingorganization (Izaak Walton, SCI, NWTF, DU, PF, etc..)or even donate to your state's fish and game commission (earmarking your donations to be used for public-access land). Your dollars will go a lot further.
If you think I'm lying, call your local Pheasants Forever chapter and ask them how many birds were ever paid for by the NRA. Or maybe ask how many prizes were ever donated at a NWTF event by the NRA. Zero.
Good points Lost. I've worked on several pro-bono environmental initiatives in law school, and I can assure you that there was never an NRA dollar that trickled our way for those efforts. I've also worked with DU, NWTF and Pheasants Forever - again, I've never heard any of those guys mention NRA funding. Why? Because there is none.
Caldoc -Good points. Many donors losesight of the fact thatmany of the NRA's key funded initiativesactually contravene the interests ofstate and local law enforcement (i.e.heightened registration requirements, expansive criminal background checks, tighter gun transfer laws, etc..). I just can't see donating to an organization that undermines the efforts of law enforcement,indirectly causing taxpayer dollars to be wasted in courtfighting thesebattles.
I would urge ANY NRA member who wants to see his/her donations directed at pro-hunting initiatives or conservation efforts, to discontinue their membership and join a credible, proven huntingorganization (Izaak Walton, SCI, NWTF, DU, PF, etc..)or even donate to your state's fish and game commission (earmarking your donations to be used for public-access land). Your dollars will go a lot further.
If you think I'm lying, call your local Pheasants Forever chapter and ask them how many birds were ever paid for by the NRA. Or maybe ask how many prizes were ever donated at a NWTF event by the NRA. Zero.