Drop em where they stand!
11-01-2005, 10:01 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: Drop em where they stand!
Bullet size....
shot placement....
Two often debated topics!
To answer the question, "can it be done with a 25-06@100-150 yards?"
Yes, it can easily be done with the 25-06!
While I don't like small calibers for deer, it CAN be done with any of .22's also!
So, it really goes to the second topic, "shot placement!
The three surest shots for dropping a deer in its tracks are: head, spine, and double shoulder shots.
Head, or spine shots CAN be done with most any caliber, while the shoulder shots work better with larger, and/or faster bullets.
Personally, I don't care for ANY of these three shots! Head, or spine shots requirePERFECT hits, and the shoulder shots are not 100% "drop shots," and RUIN way too much meat for my liking!
Give me a double lung shot, and a blood trail,withANY good hunting bullet in .243 on up, and I'll give you 99.9% of your deer's meat in the freezer!
Sometimes, a double lunger will even drop on the spot!
Mostly they'll run, 0-100 yards, or so, even with a "cannon!"
But, almostZERO meat damage, AND bigger target,WITH easier tracking, are much more appealing to me, than "MAYBE" dropping them on the spot, with a higher % of wounded/lost animals!
shot placement....
Two often debated topics!
To answer the question, "can it be done with a 25-06@100-150 yards?"
Yes, it can easily be done with the 25-06!
While I don't like small calibers for deer, it CAN be done with any of .22's also!
So, it really goes to the second topic, "shot placement!
The three surest shots for dropping a deer in its tracks are: head, spine, and double shoulder shots.
Head, or spine shots CAN be done with most any caliber, while the shoulder shots work better with larger, and/or faster bullets.
Personally, I don't care for ANY of these three shots! Head, or spine shots requirePERFECT hits, and the shoulder shots are not 100% "drop shots," and RUIN way too much meat for my liking!
Give me a double lung shot, and a blood trail,withANY good hunting bullet in .243 on up, and I'll give you 99.9% of your deer's meat in the freezer!
Sometimes, a double lunger will even drop on the spot!
Mostly they'll run, 0-100 yards, or so, even with a "cannon!"
But, almostZERO meat damage, AND bigger target,WITH easier tracking, are much more appealing to me, than "MAYBE" dropping them on the spot, with a higher % of wounded/lost animals!
11-02-2005, 07:42 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MN USA
Posts: 1,489
RE: Drop em where they stand!
ORIGINAL: JagMagMan
Sometimes, a double lunger will even drop on the spot!
Mostly they'll run, 0-100 yards, or so, even with a "cannon!"
But, almostZERO meat damage, AND bigger target,WITH easier tracking, are much more appealing to me, than "MAYBE" dropping them on the spot, with a higher % of wounded/lost animals!
Sometimes, a double lunger will even drop on the spot!
Mostly they'll run, 0-100 yards, or so, even with a "cannon!"
But, almostZERO meat damage, AND bigger target,WITH easier tracking, are much more appealing to me, than "MAYBE" dropping them on the spot, with a higher % of wounded/lost animals!
11-02-2005, 07:58 AM
#15
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: Drop em where they stand!
I agree with using the double lung and or taking the heart with it if possible. Simply put an animal CAN'T survive very long without oxygen. But rarely doesa true mid or lowerlung shot result in downing an animal "in his tracks". I have studied this for years and especially since getting my Lazzeroni in 99.
It takes ALOT of force to kill an animal instantly with strictly a lungshot. Now getting into the spinal area or neck area or Tx heartshots yes those are easily done shots for dropping them where they stand. But they waste alot of good meat or damage the hide or a wanted trophy. As for the 25/06 doing it. The 25/06 I had NEVER dropped them in their tracks with a simple lungshot. But realistically rarely do any of my 30/06s, 50cal muzzleloaders or either of my 7mags. About the only gun that has produced several instant kills in the lungs (for me anyway) is the Lazz. I think it takes a combination of bullet weight (150grn for me) and velocity (3700ish fps) to drop them where they stand if nothing other than the lungs is hit.
Double shoulder hits with large, fast calibers typically results in "lights out" but they take alot of meat with them. Or at least in the case of my Lazz the Triple Shock Barnes doesn't blow meat up but turns bone fragments into shrapnel that travels as far as the hindquarters of the animal and up through the neck. A neck shot is a GREAT shot for any caliber and typically will drop them like a bad habit. BUT there is greater potential for a miss (smaller and moving target) and if it is a trophy it will tear up the cape.
That is why I prefer bullets that will FULLY penetrate an animal and leave an exit hole. A full "2 sided" entrance/exit hole through the lungs WILL kill any big game animal alive and they wont run very far (typically less than 100yds). For me bullets like Barnes or Winchester Fail Safes are the ones to go too. Ballistic Tips just don't cut it IMHO. But I realize alot of guys use them and like them. I just realize that a BT wont fully penetrate and animal at 350yds when a "Tx heartshot" is used like I do with the Barnes'.
The most effective thing I can give you is advice I heard many moons ago and was actually borrowed from a bowhunter with regards too shot placement. Don't worry about where the bullet is going into the animal, visualize them as a 3D, transparent object and visualize where you want the bullet to exit! THAT will show you where you must place the shot to get the effect you want. But again, that is ONLY with bullets and calibers that have the ability to wade in deep and "GET R DUN".
"Drop em where they stand" that has been one of my battel crys for years!
RA
It takes ALOT of force to kill an animal instantly with strictly a lungshot. Now getting into the spinal area or neck area or Tx heartshots yes those are easily done shots for dropping them where they stand. But they waste alot of good meat or damage the hide or a wanted trophy. As for the 25/06 doing it. The 25/06 I had NEVER dropped them in their tracks with a simple lungshot. But realistically rarely do any of my 30/06s, 50cal muzzleloaders or either of my 7mags. About the only gun that has produced several instant kills in the lungs (for me anyway) is the Lazz. I think it takes a combination of bullet weight (150grn for me) and velocity (3700ish fps) to drop them where they stand if nothing other than the lungs is hit.
Double shoulder hits with large, fast calibers typically results in "lights out" but they take alot of meat with them. Or at least in the case of my Lazz the Triple Shock Barnes doesn't blow meat up but turns bone fragments into shrapnel that travels as far as the hindquarters of the animal and up through the neck. A neck shot is a GREAT shot for any caliber and typically will drop them like a bad habit. BUT there is greater potential for a miss (smaller and moving target) and if it is a trophy it will tear up the cape.
That is why I prefer bullets that will FULLY penetrate an animal and leave an exit hole. A full "2 sided" entrance/exit hole through the lungs WILL kill any big game animal alive and they wont run very far (typically less than 100yds). For me bullets like Barnes or Winchester Fail Safes are the ones to go too. Ballistic Tips just don't cut it IMHO. But I realize alot of guys use them and like them. I just realize that a BT wont fully penetrate and animal at 350yds when a "Tx heartshot" is used like I do with the Barnes'.
The most effective thing I can give you is advice I heard many moons ago and was actually borrowed from a bowhunter with regards too shot placement. Don't worry about where the bullet is going into the animal, visualize them as a 3D, transparent object and visualize where you want the bullet to exit! THAT will show you where you must place the shot to get the effect you want. But again, that is ONLY with bullets and calibers that have the ability to wade in deep and "GET R DUN".
"Drop em where they stand" that has been one of my battel crys for years!
RA
11-02-2005, 09:04 AM
#17
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 480
RE: Drop em where they stand!
If you want to drop a deer on the spot there are only two ways that it can be done.
1. A direct hit to the brain or spinal column. This obviously drops deer where they stand and they expire pretty damned fast.
2. A shot through the lungs AND heart with massive accompanying damage. Imagine a 12 gauge slug punching through the lungs and almost completely removing the heart. The deer wouldn't be able to breathe, and would not have any blood pressure to the brain. My guess is that this would still not kill the deer instantly.
Don't worry about dropping your deer where he stands. Just make a good shot and then follow the red splatters.
1. A direct hit to the brain or spinal column. This obviously drops deer where they stand and they expire pretty damned fast.
2. A shot through the lungs AND heart with massive accompanying damage. Imagine a 12 gauge slug punching through the lungs and almost completely removing the heart. The deer wouldn't be able to breathe, and would not have any blood pressure to the brain. My guess is that this would still not kill the deer instantly.
Don't worry about dropping your deer where he stands. Just make a good shot and then follow the red splatters.
11-02-2005, 09:19 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: Drop em where they stand!
Gene...I am surprised when a deer doesn't drop in its tracks, at least 75% of the deer I shoot drop...Either a high lung shot or a high shoulder shot (bullet through the shoulder blade) will drop them...angling away from you...put the bullet into the off shoulder blade...angling toward you...where the neck joins the shoulder...any of these shots with a good bullet will drop them...
I sight in about 2 1/2 high at 100 yards...and in the 100-150 yard range I will hit about 2-3 inches above dead center of the deer....or about 2-3 inches below the spine...I think that is the key...if your bullet hits the lungs dead center...they will run a few yards...usually no problem...except in eastern NC it seems most of out fields have swamps or cutovers around them...I'd rather drop them in the field than have to wade into the swamp to get them out...
Also...you don't need a cannon to do this...I have used a .243 for over 25 years...
I sight in about 2 1/2 high at 100 yards...and in the 100-150 yard range I will hit about 2-3 inches above dead center of the deer....or about 2-3 inches below the spine...I think that is the key...if your bullet hits the lungs dead center...they will run a few yards...usually no problem...except in eastern NC it seems most of out fields have swamps or cutovers around them...I'd rather drop them in the field than have to wade into the swamp to get them out...
Also...you don't need a cannon to do this...I have used a .243 for over 25 years...
11-02-2005, 10:16 AM
#19
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: old pa mountain hunter
Posts: 382
RE: Drop em where they stand!
i think it is all luck and the will of the deer to live. i have seen both shoulders shot and the deer still try to go with just the back legs. i have seen deer with nothing left of the heart or lungs but they still tried to go for for a few seconds. with head shots i have seen them jump around like a jumping bean for a short time. and even the spinal cord shots i have seen them spin in circles on the ground. there is no sure way to tell what shot is going to put a deer down in its tracks. i have seen them drop like a rock from a lung shot of a .308 and other times they may run 50 or 100 yards. biggest surprize i ever had was when i shot one about 70 yards with my .50 cal with a round ball he never moved. it was a slow moving projectile to the lungs and the bullet never even passed threw. there is just not any sure shot to make them drop on the spot. maybe bionicrooster is on to something.