jcchartboy

This may be one of the most ridiculous statements I have read on this board in some time. If recoil is going to be the deciding factor inrecommending ammuntion to this individual perhaps we should not be having this discussion at all. The difference in recoil between shoot 9 .33cal projectiles out of a 12ga or one standard rifled slug is so negligeable in the field as to make its discussion laughable.

As far as acuuracy you say rifled slugs are " notorously un-accurate.", compared to what? A benchrest rifle? We are making a comparison here between 00 buck and a rifled slug at 40yds.

Virtually all modern shotguns are capable of shooting at least 2in groups at 40 yds with rifled slugs. If a gun that shoots 2in at 40yds is not accurate enough for a shooter, that individual has no place shooting at living game.

Let me make it clear, I have nothing against buckshot. I simply want this individualmake his decision based on fact., not on some random statement that has no merit.

Rebel Hog

IL-Cornfed

It's hard to beat the smashing knock-down power of a 12 gauge slug! However, you will need an Improved cylinder choke and some sort of sight (fiber optic atleast). This would put ya in the game for some serious firepower. Here in IL we take out slug guns seriously. Most use cantilever scope mounted fully rifled slug guns that shoot todays modern sabots into 4" or less groups at distances between 100 and 200 yards!

retrieverman

Since the rest of us are posting "random statements", what sources validate your information?

jcchartboy

Retrieverman,

Your statement does not pose a direct question. What specific information would you like validated?

jcchartboy

Clear examples of random statements....Although they may seem to make a point there is no context to support them whatsoever.....

retrieverman

My question is directed at your entire post. What makes you an expert on slugs and buckshot?

jcchartboy

Retrieverman,

Since itwas clearfrom your last two posts that you never intended to discuss the subject matter of my original post, I wondered to myself why any poster here would intentionally start making inflamatory remarks for no particular reason?

ThenI remembered another instance about a month ago where I saw this occur on another forum. After a quick perusal using the boards search function I was not at all surprised to find that in fact it was you, Retrieverman. In that instanceyoueven ventured so far off topic that your posts began to use the "fight" in almost every paragraph.

Well I am sorry to inform you Retrieverman, that is not what the rest of us are here to do. As you have already made it clear multiple times that you can not discuss the topic at hand without attempting to initiate personal attacks I find no point in responding to, or acknowledging any of your posts.

retrieverman

I vote for buckshot again!

Rebel Hog

Retrieverman, just because you have never had the right comination
to shoot sabots or shooting the right ones and spending alot of time
at the range testing and doing research, don't speak for everyone else.

I have hada 200yd range on my property since 1967 and do all the
testing and research with smooth bore and rifled bore guns. Have
tried just about every combo and every ammo out there.

I shoot a BRN A-5 with a Hastings Paradox barrel with a Simmons shotgun
scope. I can put everyone in a 6" pie plate @ 75-80yds using Win. BRI sabots.
You say that is not acceptable to you, well all the vitals on a deer are in a 8"
circle. I have the recovered expanded sabots on the shelf for display. Some
expanded to 60-65 and 70 caliber.


Sabot slugs
These days most of the major shotshell manufacturers also offer sabot slug loads for 12 and 20 gauge shotguns. These are for use only in fully rifled barrels. How a long arm with a fully rifled barrel can be termed a "shotgun," I fail to understand, but that is beside the point. These loads are essentially equivalent to the kind of loads used in modern, high performance muzzleloading rifles.
Since the Remington catalog is still open in front of me, I will use their sabot slugs as representative of the type. Bear in mind that, as with sabot bullets for muzzleloaders, they're plenty of variations available.
Remington offers 12 and 20 gauge Premier sabot loads with both JHP bonded lead core bullets and solid copper hollow point bullets. The former are called "Premier Core-Lokt Ultra," and latter are "Premier Copper Solid."
The 12 gauge Core-Lokt Ultra sabot bullet is a .50 caliber, 385 grain HP semi-spitzer. The catalog MV is 1900 fps and the 100 yard velocity is 1648 fps. The ME is given as 3086 ft. lbs. and the remaining energy at 100 yards is 2325 ft. lbs. The trajectory of that load looks like this: +1.8" at 50 yards, +2.4" at 100 yards, and +/- 0" at 150 yards.
The 20 gauge sabot bullet weighs 260 grains. It also has a MV of 1900 fps, and its velocity at 100 yards is given as 1615 fps. The ME is 2084 ft. lbs., and the remaining energy at 100 yards is 1506 ft. lbs. The trajectory of that load looks like this: +2.0" at 50 yards, +2.7" at 100 yards, and +/- 0" at 150 yards.
As I wrote at the outset, this are similar to the ballistics obtainable with high performance, .50 caliber, inline muzzleloading rifles. Accuracy is apparently not quite as good as the best muzzleloaders, as Remington claims consistent 2 1/2" 5-shot groups at 100 yards. But that is impressive accuracy from any kind of shotgun--even if it is really a rifle!
Clearly, the use of these sabot bullet loads completely negates the rationale behind the "shotgun only" deer hunts. Not only are these shotguns with rifled barrels technically rifles, they shoot like rifles. In fact, they equal traditional big game rifle cartridges such as the .45-70 and .38-55.
For example, a .45-70 rifle shooting a 400 grain bullet (BC .214) at a MV of 1900 fps has a trajectory that looks like this: +2.1" at 50 yards, +2.8" at 100 yards, +/- 0" at 150 yards, and -7.2" at 200 yards (Speer figures). That is a very similar trajectory to the Remington Core-Lokt Ultra loads described above.
The Hornady .45 caliber, 300 grain XTP-Mag sabot bullet used in their 12 gauge factory load has a BC of .200, which I suspect is not much different than the BC of the Remington sabot bullet. Holding a scope's horizontal crosswire level with a buck's back should put the bullet into the heart/lung area at 200 yards.