BlackLab

There is almost as many hunters as there are trees [:@]at least during rifle season.

summit daWg

Still no response, other than this.Since they were'nt responding I asked for the minutes of the Tri City commission meeting (where they adjusted the permit quotas)to try to make sense of it but this is what I got to that request.

Dear Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Department staff is currently preparing a response to your comments regarding elk permits in GMUs 328, 329, and 251. The April meeting minutes won't be ready for distribution until after the Commission reviews and approves them in June. Please see the attached electronic copy of the rule amendments that were adopted by the Commission during that meeting. I hope this helps. [/align][/align]If you'd like to hear the presentation along with Commissioners' questions and discussions on the amendments,let me know and I'll mailyou a copy of the audio recording from that portion of the meeting. Or, you can go to TVW's website and listen to the audio recording at: www.tvw.org[/align](the specifical link to public agencies: [/align]http://www.tvw.org/search/siteSearch.cfm?EventType=A&Date=2008&bhcp= 1. )[/align][/align]From here, you can search for the Fish and Wildlife Commission's April 11-12, 2008, meeting audio. [/align][/align]Please call the Wildlife Program at (360) 902-2515 if you have specific questions about the current regulations.[/align][/align]You will receive a more detailed response to your inquiry within the next couple weeks. I hope this information has been helpful for you in the meantime. [/align][/align]Sincerely,[/align][/align][/align][/align][/align]Susan Yeager, Executive Assistant
Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
(360) 902-2449 Nancy
email: [email protected][/align][/align][/align]
>>> "JAMES com> 05/23/2008 6:59:09 PM >>>
[/align]

Washington Fish and wildlife Commission[/align]If nothing else, could a person get a copy of the minutes of the Tri-City Commission meeting where the adjustments were made??[/align] Jim[/align][blockquote]
----- Original Message ----- [/align]From: Fish & Wildlife Commission [/align]To: [/align]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:45 AM[/align]Subject: Re: Special Permit allotment for GMU,s 328 329[/align]
[/align]Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Thank you for sending the correct information. I've forwarded it to Department staff.[/align][/align]Nancy[/align][/align]Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
Mail: 600 Capitol Way North
Olympia, WA 98501-1091
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/com/comintro.htm
email: [email protected]


>>> "05/15/2008 4:46 AM >>>
[/align]

OOPS.That would be GMUs 328, 329,and 251[/align][blockquote]
----- Original Message ----- [/align]From: Fish & Wildlife Commission [/align][/align]Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 7:36 AM[/align]Subject: Re: Special Permit allotment for GMU,s 328 329[/align]
[/align]Mr. Zielasko,[/align][/align]Thank you for your correspondence regarding elk hunting in GMUs 328, 329, and251. I have forwarded it to appropriate Department staff for a response. Commissioners will receive a copy of your email and response.[/align][/align]Nancy Burkhart[/align]Commission Administrative Assistant[/align][/align]Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission
Mail: 600 Capitol Way North
Olympia, WA 98501-1091
(360) 902-2267 office
(360) 902-2448 fax
website: http://wdfw.wa.gov/com/comintro.htm
email: [email protected]


[/align]
Gentlemen[/align]My name is James Zielasko and I have been elk hunting these and GMU 251 for over 40 years with my late father and mother, my brother and his children and now well into our 4th generation of Elk hunters. Oh yeah....lets not forget our many friends who enjoy it too.[/align][/align]Threeof my friends and I have been entering the drawing for the ANY BULL tag since1996. Our concern is that for the last several years the number of these permits available has gone down yearly to the point that there are now ONLY THREE for modern rifle hunters. We would like to know WHAT the problem is in these areas, and what can be done to fix this problem? Since 2005 92% of these permits are gone. From 36 in '05 to 03 in '08.Do we loose our points if we skip this year, or are we forced to spend the $5-6 even though there is NO chance of drawing this tag since there are almost 3000 people putting in for these 3 (Pathetic) permits?[/align]For the last few years we just figured that things would get better eventually, but that seems to be FAR from the pattern here, so we decided we need to question the reasons......And here we are![/align][/align][/align][/align][/blockquote][/align][/align][/blockquote][/align][/align]

J for the USA

Blacklab,
Thanks for answering my inquary. What about gated roads? Are there remote areas for us brazen, callow juvenile hunters who don't mind hiking a few miles in? From studying the maps it seems that even if there is one or two closed roads, there are plenty other roads that probably pressure the elk.
Where are you putting in for tags? I've come to the understanding that if I want to put in for Eastern special hunts, I have to choose that tag for the general side. I had the idea that if I don't get drawn for theEastern hunts I want, I'd rather have a general tag on the west side.

bdan68

summitdawg, you're wondering why there are only three rifle permits and it's not getting any better? My guess is the indians are killing too many elk out of that area in the winter. It's pretty tough for the state to manage our elk herds when the indians can go out and kill as many as they want, and many times just for the heads so they can be sold. So don't blame the state, blame the federal government for allowing the indians to do all the things that we can't.

BrutalAttack

Bingo

BrutalAttack

As far as I can see the reason for spike only is to get as many bulls (male calves) as possible to survive long enough to become big bulls.

They are only averaging 50% calf survival in many areas. So, 50% of the male calves are essentially dead before they even become spikes.

Then those male calves that are moderately successful become spikes and the highly succesful ones become raghorns or 2 points or whatever.

So by going spike only you are not allowing your most sucessful young bulls to be killed, then they can survive better,grow up and get more of your herd pregnant.

Spike bulls in general are not successful breeders so having your hunters take animals from that age class isn't going to hurt you as much.

When you start killing the prime breeders (raghorns and mature bulls) you're not getting as many cows pregnant as you probably could, even though the rut has mostly ended. So when you already don't have enough calves, you certainly don't want any more cows to not get bred.

Also, mature bulls will service the herd faster as soon as the cows come into heat,since they have harems. So that will in theory cause more calves to be born at the same time in the spring. The more calves that hit the ground at the same time, the better as predators can only get so many. If you left the breeding up to the teenagers, the calving season would probably be strung out longer and more calves would get eaten.

There really isn't anything they can do anymore until they get a handle on the predator problem and that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

The best thing they could do is shut down all elk hunting for about 10 years but no one would accept that and the Indians would still be slaughtering the big bulls.

J for the USA

Thank you B.A. I feel edgumakated Probably more straight talk about WA elk than I"d get in 50 emails with the WDFW. I still haven't chosen a side of the state to hunt..

fishm@n

I'll have to chime in here since I'm a fellow WA hunter.. and former Montana hunter (sometimes out of state when I can afford it :-)). We have hunted Taneum 336 for the last 10 years mostly rife season but have moved to archery to avoid the orange army. We have taken 4 cows and 2 spike bulls in that time.. and could have taken numerous branch antlered bulls including some trophy class bulls. I believe that Spike Only rules do indeed work.. with the goal to get more mature animals as is evidence of the number of mature bulls we have been up close and personal with. That said it sure is frustrating to put in for branch bull tag year afer year and never get chosen.. yet see them every year.. I'll refrain from the Indian discussion because it won't do anything but piss me off.

This year we're going to hunt the St Helen's area for change of pace and because you can get some exclusive tags in Toutle and Margarette.. and because we bowhunt and are likely to have better weather than November... and a good chance at hitting the rut!

Good luck in your decision

ElkoholicBB

There are some great units to put in for, but some can take you quite awhile to draw for. I would suggest Peaches Ridge C in unit 346. We get drawn there about every couple years, sometimes only having one point and there is very good Bull hunting there. We took 3 nice bulls there in 2006.

Regards,

Elkoholic-BB

BlackLab

J for usa
Sorry it took solong to respond to your post. There all pretty good units around St Helens heres a couple 522,524, and 556 mind you these are all permit only.GL! Here's a general season unit 572 quite a few elk in there 3pt min. Come opening weekend it's a different world