I think I killed a melanistic color phase eastern (pics)
04-09-2008, 11:11 AM
#22
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 409
RE: I think I killed a melanistic color phase eastern (pics)
Ten years or so ago, my of my buddies took a similar "Black Bird" with black legs. As I recall the spurs were around 1". This bird was taken in PA.
Several years ago I got a bird which appeared white in color standing next to a normal Eastern. The normal bird had a longer beard, but I chose to shoot the "White" one for fear of my buddies making jokes and have a difficult time believing me.
Actually his color was sort of light brown with a black beard and normal colored legs...
Several years ago I got a bird which appeared white in color standing next to a normal Eastern. The normal bird had a longer beard, but I chose to shoot the "White" one for fear of my buddies making jokes and have a difficult time believing me.
Actually his color was sort of light brown with a black beard and normal colored legs...
04-09-2008, 01:50 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 836
RE: I think I killed a melanistic color phase eastern (pics)
SwampCollie
Thanks for the kudos.
I am not doubting your observation about this turkey, but I would offer the following counterargument.
I have seen many white/grey/smoke color phase turkeys and they all look different In fact, the first gobbler I took a shot at back in 1983 was a smoke phase gobbler (I didn'ttouch a featherand in my excitment I'll bet I shot at him from 70 yards away). All the smoke phase ones I've seen are different and have varying degrees of "whiteness". Like a piebald deer that can be "splotchy" or mostly white with some brown mixed in or mostly brown with some white mixed in.
These color phases (with the exception of a true albino which really isn't a color phase in the truest sense),to the best of my understanding, are not pure homozygous genotypes.What I mean is thattheir DNA contains a mix of dominant and recessive genes for pigment that results in the phenotypic expression of atypical color. The albino turkey is a rare, pure homozygous recessive genotype and doesn't produce pigment at all, hence the pure white color and pink eyes and feet. The pink color is actually the hemoglobin in the blood and not pink pigment. The bronze, smoke, and black (melanistic) color phase turkeys have a mixed bag of genotypes resulting in varying degrees of color expression. In other words, some smoke phase turkeys are more white than others, some bronze phase turkeys are more bronze than others, and some melanistic turkeys are more black than others.
This turkey's feet, in my judgement, are the tell-tail sign of a melanistic turkey. The picture doesn't really do it justice, as they look as if he has been walking through black soot.The reverse coloration of the primary and secondary wing feathers are another tip, as is the tail.
He might not be as black as some melanistic turkeysso I would agree that he isn't, as you state, a "textbook" melanistic, all black turkey. I would still contend, however, that he is melanistic.
Here is an interestng link from Cornell University School of Ornithology:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/studying/feathers/color_ab
Thanks for the kudos.
I am not doubting your observation about this turkey, but I would offer the following counterargument.
I have seen many white/grey/smoke color phase turkeys and they all look different In fact, the first gobbler I took a shot at back in 1983 was a smoke phase gobbler (I didn'ttouch a featherand in my excitment I'll bet I shot at him from 70 yards away). All the smoke phase ones I've seen are different and have varying degrees of "whiteness". Like a piebald deer that can be "splotchy" or mostly white with some brown mixed in or mostly brown with some white mixed in.
These color phases (with the exception of a true albino which really isn't a color phase in the truest sense),to the best of my understanding, are not pure homozygous genotypes.What I mean is thattheir DNA contains a mix of dominant and recessive genes for pigment that results in the phenotypic expression of atypical color. The albino turkey is a rare, pure homozygous recessive genotype and doesn't produce pigment at all, hence the pure white color and pink eyes and feet. The pink color is actually the hemoglobin in the blood and not pink pigment. The bronze, smoke, and black (melanistic) color phase turkeys have a mixed bag of genotypes resulting in varying degrees of color expression. In other words, some smoke phase turkeys are more white than others, some bronze phase turkeys are more bronze than others, and some melanistic turkeys are more black than others.
This turkey's feet, in my judgement, are the tell-tail sign of a melanistic turkey. The picture doesn't really do it justice, as they look as if he has been walking through black soot.The reverse coloration of the primary and secondary wing feathers are another tip, as is the tail.
He might not be as black as some melanistic turkeysso I would agree that he isn't, as you state, a "textbook" melanistic, all black turkey. I would still contend, however, that he is melanistic.
Here is an interestng link from Cornell University School of Ornithology:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/studying/feathers/color_ab
04-09-2008, 03:08 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: I think I killed a melanistic color phase eastern (pics)
ORIGINAL: mouthcaller
SwampCollie
Thanks for the kudos.
I am not doubting your observation about this turkey, but I would offer the following counterargument.
I have seen many white/grey/smoke color phase turkeys and they all look different In fact, the first gobbler I took a shot at back in 1983 was a smoke phase gobbler (I didn'ttouch a featherand in my excitment I'll bet I shot at him from 70 yards away). All the smoke phase ones I've seen are different and have varying degrees of "whiteness". Like a piebald deer that can be "splotchy" or mostly white with some brown mixed in or mostly brown with some white mixed in.
These color phases (with the exception of a true albino which really isn't a color phase in the truest sense),to the best of my understanding, are not pure homozygous genotypes.What I mean is thattheir DNA contains a mix of dominant and recessive genes for pigment that results in the phenotypic expression of atypical color. The albino turkey is a rare, pure homozygous recessive genotype and doesn't produce pigment at all, hence the pure white color and pink eyes and feet. The pink color is actually the hemoglobin in the blood and not pink pigment. The bronze, smoke, and black (melanistic) color phase turkeys have a mixed bag of genotypes resulting in varying degrees of color expression. In other words, some smoke phase turkeys are more white than others, some bronze phase turkeys are more bronze than others, and some melanistic turkeys are more black than others.
This turkey's feet, in my judgement, are the tell-tail sign of a melanistic turkey. The picture doesn't really do it justice, as they look as if he has been walking through black soot.The reverse coloration of the primary and secondary wing feathers are another tip, as is the tail.
He might not be as black as some melanistic turkeysso I would agree that he isn't, as you state, a "textbook" melanistic, all black turkey. I would still contend, however, that he is melanistic.
Here is an interestng link from Cornell University School of Ornithology:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/studying/feathers/color_ab
SwampCollie
Thanks for the kudos.
I am not doubting your observation about this turkey, but I would offer the following counterargument.
I have seen many white/grey/smoke color phase turkeys and they all look different In fact, the first gobbler I took a shot at back in 1983 was a smoke phase gobbler (I didn'ttouch a featherand in my excitment I'll bet I shot at him from 70 yards away). All the smoke phase ones I've seen are different and have varying degrees of "whiteness". Like a piebald deer that can be "splotchy" or mostly white with some brown mixed in or mostly brown with some white mixed in.
These color phases (with the exception of a true albino which really isn't a color phase in the truest sense),to the best of my understanding, are not pure homozygous genotypes.What I mean is thattheir DNA contains a mix of dominant and recessive genes for pigment that results in the phenotypic expression of atypical color. The albino turkey is a rare, pure homozygous recessive genotype and doesn't produce pigment at all, hence the pure white color and pink eyes and feet. The pink color is actually the hemoglobin in the blood and not pink pigment. The bronze, smoke, and black (melanistic) color phase turkeys have a mixed bag of genotypes resulting in varying degrees of color expression. In other words, some smoke phase turkeys are more white than others, some bronze phase turkeys are more bronze than others, and some melanistic turkeys are more black than others.
This turkey's feet, in my judgement, are the tell-tail sign of a melanistic turkey. The picture doesn't really do it justice, as they look as if he has been walking through black soot.The reverse coloration of the primary and secondary wing feathers are another tip, as is the tail.
He might not be as black as some melanistic turkeysso I would agree that he isn't, as you state, a "textbook" melanistic, all black turkey. I would still contend, however, that he is melanistic.
Here is an interestng link from Cornell University School of Ornithology:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/studying/feathers/color_ab
I certainly do see the point behind looking at the feet, and couldn't agree more with your point about "smokey" color phase birds often looking different from one to the next. I have more experience with waterfowl when it comes to genetic mutations, color phases and recessive traits... but I'm quite certain that the two (waterfowl and turkey's) go hand in hand like other species do.
With regards to piebald deer, I totally understand where you are coming from. I've seen several and taken two over the years.... and you are quite right that no two are quite alike. I did a little digging, and found a few pictures of some other turkeysin the melanistic color phase... since it was more or less "textbooks" I was looking at, they were almost completely black, and most of the explanations of the disorder (if you can call it that) refered to no white or light brown or any color other than black being present. I have personally seen a melanistic phase leopard hide, and personally I'll tell you that it is closer to dark chocolate than jet black... and it still has the black rosettes typical of the species... considering that, I can understand how/why we can still see some of the barring and darker brown areas on your bird.... and as you said (and I agree) pictures never do justice.
