mysticguido

I'm having some problums with arrow flight. I think it's because there is to much of the arrow on the flat shelf of me bow. If I install a shot around rest on it would I still be call a traditional archer?

JimPic

Assuming you have the right spined arrow for your bow,it could be what you're thinking.You can put some material under the shelf rest(leather works well)to create a crowned shelf and keep shaft contact to a minumum on the shelf.
Also,what kind of bow,what weight are you shooting,what spined shaft,what's the arrow doing after it 's off the shelf--a few more details and I'm sure you'll get some good suggestions to straighten your problem out.

Ossage

Nobody knows what Trad means, it's just an emotion. But no that wouldn't be traditional. I use a couple of tests. Do they sell it int he three rivers catalogue, and do any of the famous trad archers use it. Nix to both.

Are you shooting vanes or feathers?

As JP mentioned you can make a little deal where you have a velcro strike plate for instance on the riser side of the window, and a tiny matchstick sized sliver of velcro on the shelf, as far out as possible without the arrow falling through. Then you just cock the nock so the inside fletch goes through the gap, usualy the feathers will be roughly at 12, 4, and 8 o'clock. This is the Black Widow approach. More traditionaly you just get plenty of height for your nock placement, and also, you can get tapered wood shafts, where the fletching is a little more in the slipstream.

mysticguido

I'm shooting a bear hunter take down 60" 55# at my draw, I'm using easton 2315's 29" & 125gr heads, 3 feathers. I have my nock set about 1" above the shelf. I'm still getting some porpoising and a lot of arrow contact on the shelf. I was told to add a toothpick under the pad to cut down on the surface touching the arrow. I want to be as close to Traditional as possible.

Lilhunter

To be honest, traditional can only be defined by you!

There are stories written on Fred B. taping cigarette's on his riser window to adjust his left or right, not really traditional by anymeans. He'd get the left and right figured and replace it with something more permanent.

Release's, back then called hooks, were first patented in the mid 1880's, its ironic how most stickbow guys consider release's of today, non traditional. Are they? Thats up to you...

Traditional is really nothing more then a period of time you feel you want to reenact, almost like the muzzleloader followers. Go to a rondy and you'll see what I mean. They'll shoot it, dress in the proper time attire, using the 'proper' tools and gear of that time period. Traditional archery is a bastardized term that really is anything non compound or xbow.

That said, it doesnt matter how traditional or modern it is, if ya cant hit what you are shooting at or doing so with horrible arrow flight, it really dont make much of a difference.

Bad arrow flight is going to hurt you in 2 big ways. First accuracy, usually guys with arrows corkscrewing through the air have a hard time hitting anything with some kind of consistency then the average trad bow shooter. The other is in penetration. You are loosing so much energy trying to force a arrow into something sideways, or at any degree less then pefectly straight.

tooth pick's work, so do strips of leather. I prefer to take a larger tooth pick, shave it down flat at about mid depth, and slightly flatten the top by scraping/squashing it down a tad. That said I've gone to just putting a thicker piece of leather for the shelf mainly due to ease.

On the riser window itself, you can adjust your left and right once you start shooting groups by moving your arrow in (if possible) or moving it out. The closer to the riser itself, the stiffer your arrow will act (or closer to centershot), the farther to the away from the riser the weaker it will act. (dynamic vs static spines, by adjust brace height, string materials, amount of strands, silencer placement on the string, pressure point placements on your shelf/riser, you are adjust dynamic spines. Static spine is what the arrow reads on a spine tester.)

Never make more then one change, and dont go to big all at once. If you are just fooling around to see what happens, take measurements first, then play. Change to much at once and you'll get false or inaccurate readings. This is the hard part of shooting a stickbow vs a compound. There is little solid reference minus porpising or fishtailing to tell us whats going on....Ie why did I hit right, or left, or up or down, was it me plucking, bad spine, or was I just not pointing the arrow at the bull/vitals. These are questions you can only answer over time as you learn to shoot and get confident with a bow. That or find a good coach. Its hard to learn when everyone you are shooting with are at the same level as you or there abouts. Shoots are a good place to find a good shot to critique you. Mind you he may not teach very well and watch him/her for awhile to make sure they really CAN shoot good lmao. Or else you are back to the blind leading the blind.

Byron Ferguson's book goes into fine tuning. Its a great place to go, AFTER you are getting results and things start to click. If you can't shoot with some kind of consistency and start playing with silencer placement or pressure point placement, you'll likely see no movement down range at all. Go slow, and keep shooting.

Another thing is, 2 guys with the same bow will shoot not nessicarly be able to shoot exactly the same set up. I am sure if you find enough people you can get a couple of them to shoot it pretty much the same, however thats not the norm. How one grips the string, grips the bow, finger pressure on the string, and follow through will all make changes in how the bow shoots.

a 2315 spines out at 91lbs or .286

If you can find someone with a 29" arrow who has one of these shafts, I'd try and shoot one, or maybe buy one from them just for tuning.

2016 61lb spine
1920 65lb spine
2115 68lb spine
2018 69lb spine
2020 75lb spine
2215 76lb spine
2117 78lb spine

Just some more options to try, and I'd bet one of them will fly great more so then a 2315. It just seems a tad high in spine to me. However if it works, DONT CHANGE IT!!!

Ossage

That's the point, if something can only be defined by "you" then it can't be defined at all. Dictionaries aren't full of 10 000 subjectivities, they are full of definitions, that most people can agree with. Traditional is a nebulous term, but it seems to draw in a good sized group of people even if none of us have the least idea what the other means by it.

I used to shoot 2317 out of a 75 pound bow at 29", but at your draw, that has to be pretty stiff, and you will see it in the arrow flight, however I would expect to see fishtailing, not porpoising. The reason why the 20 something shafts are popular is that they work over a wide range of bows, and they don't stir up centershot problems.

If you have any uncut 2315 arround, start shooting them at full lenght (33"?) and gradualy trim them back until they are good to go. the too soft shafts should be going tail left, then they should straighten then go tail right, for a RH shooter.

There isn't anything wrong with having a bit more arrow hanging out there. For that mater you can punch up your point weight.

This kind of thing can be a useful exercise, even if you don't want to shoot 33" arrows with 160 grain heads. If that was the winning combo, you could still find what kind of arrow that is equivalent to in a more reasonable size.

Wingbone

Try lowering your nocking point. 1" above the rest sounds high. I've always set my nocking point 1/8" above the rest and had good arrow flight. Unless you're plucking your string on release you should be getting good flight with those arrows. I've only found 3 things which affect arrow flight, assuming the right spine: Nocking point location, string height.(if my strings stretch past a certain point, I get bad flight); and release. Look to those things first.

TJ SILVERTIP

I USE an elevated rest on my bows the cheap little bear weather rest, more forgiving and i get awesome arrow flight, AND THE GREATEST BOWHUNTER OF ALL TIME PAUL SCHAFER ALWAYS USED THEM !!!

PineLander

Wow, Lilhunter... not much more to add to that one! good stuff...

Nocking point does sound kind of high, probably some slapping down on the shelf going on there, as a result porpoising. Brace height basics is a good one to pay attention to also... once you've got the arrow passing over the shelf straightened out (no pun intended), you will find that as the brace is increased, arrow tends to have better flight even on a not-so-good release.

As TJ mentioned... doesn't hurt to try one of them stick-on rest thingys. There's lots of guys using elevated rests on their recurves, no shame at all. What's "traditional" anyway? I guess a recurve, longbow, or selfbow shot barebow (no sights)? I dunno... back in the 60's lots of archers were using sights, but then again there were no other bows available to discern what was trad and what wasn't.

mysticguido

Thank You All. I have been getting alot of help around here, and my shafts are not right for my draw and poundage. I was talking to a traditional bow shop owner, and He told me, I have the wrong arrows! I should have 2018's or 2016's. Again Thanks for all you input.