arrowsmit

Bill, I think that's the ONLY rule...ya make your own as you go! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Dan, I've been curious a long time about that very question: All else being equal (bow draw weight, draw length, quality of arrow flite, etc), is there a point of diminishing returns (of energy transfer) for arrow weight? I've never gotten a consumate answer, & am not nearly well versed enough in physical laws to figure it out by myself. Veeeery interestink!!

Lilhunter

I think there is but I think I am like you....lol! Not knowing where to begin and knowing someone who is well versed in all this figured he would enlightn me.....havent received an email back yet though...I'll post when he replys.

lamb1647

The bottom line when choosing arrow type and spine, broadhead, etc., one must choose which compromise to make. Do you compromise energy and silence of the bow to accomplish greater speed? Or do you compromise speed to gain energy and improved silencing of the bow.

I have heard the arguement that speed has more influence on energy than does weight of the arrow because the energy is a factor of the velocity squared times the mass. That may be true insofar as initial velocity is concerned. However, I believe the heavier arrow will retain much more of its energy downrange than will the lighter arrow.

The air drag of feather fletching will impact the lighter arrow downrange more so than the heavier arrow. I always chose to use arrows as close to 9 gr/pdf when I was shooting compounds because my bows were much quieter, the limbs therefore were absorbing much less of the energy from the draw force curve because the heavy arrows were much more efficient in absorbing the energy.

That is the other element that must be considered. Transfer of energy from the bow to the arrow. A heavier arrow will have more energy transferred to it. The lighter arrow will have less transferred to it, therefore the limbs pay the price by absorbing the difference.

What is a good trade-off. With compounds I never went under 8 gr/pdf and got as close to 9 gr/pdf as I could. With traditional, I haven't been at it long enough to really get a good feel for it, but I think I would stick to the 9 gr/pdf as my minimum and probably would try to avoid going over 10 gr/pdf.

Can I give a good reason for my guesstimations for traditional bows? No! It is just a gut feeling. And I have a big gut so I usually trust it! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill

lamb1647

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Bill, I think that's the ONLY rule...ya make your own as you go! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Vic,

If you was around me very much, I think you wold find me to be an insufferable punster. I like to take words and phrases and use them in one liners.

In essence, that is what I have been doing in asking Chad to post the longbow rules. I'm sure there aren't any hard and fast rules, but, I was playing off of Chad's well known signature &quot;Longbow Rules&quot; when asking him to publish the longbow rules.

You would have to think like me to comprehend some of the things that I come up with. But, if you thought like me, you'd be a punster, too. I'm not sure the board can handle more than one! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Bill

Lilhunter

hey Bill...thats about perfect.

I do think you are kinda missing what me and Vic were getting at there though. Getting to heavy, 10 grains is fine, I know of one guy up here at 14 dang near 15grains per pound of draw! Just makes me wonder if there is a breaking point where that heavy of an arrow would be a less efficient total package then say a 8-10 grain per pound of draw weight set up would. I also wonder for those folks who were shooting godzilla bows like Howard Hill was.....80-100lb bows were the norm.....I wonder if he shot 800grain arrows out the hundred pounders, not talking his elephant arra, I thought that was like 1700 grains lol but his lions and such? ANyone know?

arrowsmit

Not at all sure about HH's fav arrow weight, but I recall reading an article in TBM years ago where the author used 1500gr solid fiberglass fishing arrows on whitetails. I can't remember the guys name or bow weight, but that's the one that really got me thinkin about the diminishing returns factor...

lamb1647

Vic & Dan,

I think we are saying the same thing, just phrasing it a bit differently. I believe there is a point of diminishing returns going both directions, either too heavy or too light. That is why I settled on 8 gr/pdf on the light end for my compounds. I got the best compromise of speed and noise at that level. Likewise, I suspect that when going past 10 gr/pdf for a longbow, the the amount of noise reduction achieved is minimal in comparison to the rapidly decreasing arrow speed.

The other factor, point weight, is really going to be a factor of the arrow/fletching/nocks weight and resultant FOC. If I went to a heavy point just to have a heavy point, and resulted in a FOC that was too far forward, I would get horrible arrow flight. The heavy point would tend to want to drive the forward end of the shaft into the ground.

Bill

Lilhunter

I read that too Vic....quite awhile ago, thought he had a big ole doe for a picture, I remember he was a longbow shooter.

I think you are right now that I re read everything and your most recent post LOL

as to your heavy points...thats exactly whats happening to a couple guys up here.....got tired of trying to help them. One of them has a buffalo tag burning a hole in his pocket and dang if he isnt taking out his rifle. Oh ya I want to do it with my recurve....ya right! Even if he did I would bet his arrow bounces off flying sideways LOL!

Carolina Bob

Lamb1647, nice talking with you at Buds. I took your advice and had him order some RR shafts, now have the jig completed and am attempting to make barreled shafts to shoot out of the Martin Vision. I will use 5 1/2 inch Shield cut LW Yellow feathers. Cheers

lamb1647

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Lamb1647, nice talking with you at Buds. I took your advice and had him order some RR shafts, now have the jig completed and am attempting to make barreled shafts to shoot out of the Martin Vision. I will use 5 1/2 inch Shield cut LW Yellow feathers. Cheers
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Bob,

Thanks for helping me with the paper tuning today. I was amazed to see the number of traditional bows in Bud's shop today.

Deans' Hungarian horsebow is quite unique, very quiet, and quick. It would be something else if he got one in Yew, Walnut or Elm!

Bill