Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
01-22-2008, 06:04 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
We’ve all heard that shooting instinctive is like throwing a baseball, shooting a basketball etc.
Well here’s my question. Since obviously some people can do those things more accurately than others, is it safe to conclude that a person who couldn’t hit a strike zone to save their life & was a bad basketball shot, would have a much harder time getting good at instinctive shooting? I’m just wondering out loud.
Well here’s my question. Since obviously some people can do those things more accurately than others, is it safe to conclude that a person who couldn’t hit a strike zone to save their life & was a bad basketball shot, would have a much harder time getting good at instinctive shooting? I’m just wondering out loud.
01-22-2008, 06:17 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Spring Grove, Pa. USA
Posts: 2,120
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
Not necessarily.Nolan Ryan might have a hard time shooting a bow instinctive just as Byron Ferguson might have problems throwing a fastball down the middle-if neither shot a bow or threw baseballs,respectively.You gotta practice-alot- if you want to achieve any kind of accuracy
01-22-2008, 07:20 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
I agree with what Jim said, but generally speaking shooting "instinctivly" generally comes easier for those who naturally have better hand/eye coordination.
There are several ways of shooting traditional bows using a sight system though--you don't have to shoot instinctive, and it seems to be easier for most folks to start out with some sort of aiming method and gravitate towards instinctive.
Like Jim said--practice is the key. I'll add that good practice--not just flinging arrows--will bring you the best results, and much quicker.
Chad
There are several ways of shooting traditional bows using a sight system though--you don't have to shoot instinctive, and it seems to be easier for most folks to start out with some sort of aiming method and gravitate towards instinctive.
Like Jim said--practice is the key. I'll add that good practice--not just flinging arrows--will bring you the best results, and much quicker.
Chad
01-22-2008, 08:11 AM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
Not all people are athletes. Not all people have the hand/eye coordination needed. For every person who hasthe ability tofocus their concentration well enough to do it, there are a million who can't.For every Catfish Hunter or Phil Niekro or Nolan Ryan that comes along, there's a million who couldn't hit a catcher's mitt in a hundred throws. For every decent instinctive shooter who comes along, thereis a millionwho will never get the hang of it.
Pointing works with a shotgun, but that's because you've gota thick cloud of pellets going out there to the target. You wouldn't shoot a rifle withoutaiming, not if you intended to hit what you're shooting at. IMO, shooting an arrow is the same as shooting a bullet. You need to aim if you really intend to hit what you're shooting at.
Instinctive is a misnomer anyway. There is nothing instinctive about shooting a bow. It's a conditioned physical activity. You learned how to do it. Guys who beat the drum for instinctive shooting are setting the vast majority ofnewbies up for a long, hard, often frustrating learning curve. Learning to shoot purely instinctive is a LOT of trial and error. Mostly error.
Standard advice is "start really close, shoot a lot, then start moving back a little at a time as you get better." No wonder so manyinstinctive shooters cut it off as soon as they get kinda proficient at 20 yards. It takes a long time to get there. And the margin of error gets much larger the further the distance.
On the other hand, using the arrow as a sight reference, you can cut the learning curve way down. I mentioned in the other thread about having a 60 yard point-on with my old bow. I shot a 3D tournament with it once. It was an old fashioned type shoot without any classes. I wound up tied for third place with 5 others, all shooting compounds with sights. They put a coyote target out there at 60 yard with an orange sticky dot on it for the shoot-off.I was grinning inside when they did that.
The one who hit furthest from the dot was out. I made it through 3 rounds of the shoot-off before I finally got beat out. People were amazed that I made it to the shoot-off, and even more amazed that I was knocking compounds out. I heard quite a few "How's he doing that?" questions coming from the crowd. Wound up in 5th place for the shoot, and was one of only two traditional shooters in the field of 175 shooters.
An instinctive shooter couldn't have done it.
Pointing works with a shotgun, but that's because you've gota thick cloud of pellets going out there to the target. You wouldn't shoot a rifle withoutaiming, not if you intended to hit what you're shooting at. IMO, shooting an arrow is the same as shooting a bullet. You need to aim if you really intend to hit what you're shooting at.
Instinctive is a misnomer anyway. There is nothing instinctive about shooting a bow. It's a conditioned physical activity. You learned how to do it. Guys who beat the drum for instinctive shooting are setting the vast majority ofnewbies up for a long, hard, often frustrating learning curve. Learning to shoot purely instinctive is a LOT of trial and error. Mostly error.
Standard advice is "start really close, shoot a lot, then start moving back a little at a time as you get better." No wonder so manyinstinctive shooters cut it off as soon as they get kinda proficient at 20 yards. It takes a long time to get there. And the margin of error gets much larger the further the distance.
On the other hand, using the arrow as a sight reference, you can cut the learning curve way down. I mentioned in the other thread about having a 60 yard point-on with my old bow. I shot a 3D tournament with it once. It was an old fashioned type shoot without any classes. I wound up tied for third place with 5 others, all shooting compounds with sights. They put a coyote target out there at 60 yard with an orange sticky dot on it for the shoot-off.I was grinning inside when they did that.
The one who hit furthest from the dot was out. I made it through 3 rounds of the shoot-off before I finally got beat out. People were amazed that I made it to the shoot-off, and even more amazed that I was knocking compounds out. I heard quite a few "How's he doing that?" questions coming from the crowd. Wound up in 5th place for the shoot, and was one of only two traditional shooters in the field of 175 shooters.
An instinctive shooter couldn't have done it.
01-22-2008, 08:45 AM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
Instinctive is a misnomer anyway. There is nothing instinctive about shooting a bow. It's a conditioned physical activity. You learned how to do it. Guys who beat the drum for instinctive shooting are setting the vast majority ofnewbies up for a long, hard, often frustrating learning curve. Learning to shoot purely instinctive is a LOT of trial and error. Mostly error.
01-22-2008, 10:00 AM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
Not all people are athletes. Not all people have the hand/eye coordination needed. For every person who hasthe ability tofocus their concentration well enough to do it, there are a million who can't.For every Catfish Hunter or Phil Niekro or Nolan Ryan that comes along, there's a million who couldn't hit a catcher's mitt in a hundred throws. For every decent instinctive shooter who comes along, thereis a millionwho will never get the hang of it.
Pointing works with a shotgun, but that's because you've gota thick cloud of pellets going out there to the target. You wouldn't shoot a rifle withoutaiming, not if you intended to hit what you're shooting at. IMO, shooting an arrow is the same as shooting a bullet. You need to aim if you really intend to hit what you're shooting at.
Instinctive is a misnomer anyway. There is nothing instinctive about shooting a bow. It's a conditioned physical activity. You learned how to do it. Guys who beat the drum for instinctive shooting are setting the vast majority ofnewbies up for a long, hard, often frustrating learning curve. Learning to shoot purely instinctive is a LOT of trial and error. Mostly error.
Standard advice is "start really close, shoot a lot, then start moving back a little at a time as you get better." No wonder so manyinstinctive shooters cut it off as soon as they get kinda proficient at 20 yards. It takes a long time to get there. And the margin of error gets much larger the further the distance.
On the other hand, using the arrow as a sight reference, you can cut the learning curve way down. I mentioned in the other thread about having a 60 yard point-on with my old bow. I shot a 3D tournament with it once. It was an old fashioned type shoot without any classes. I wound up tied for third place with 5 others, all shooting compounds with sights. They put a coyote target out there at 60 yard with an orange sticky dot on it for the shoot-off.I was grinning inside when they did that.
The one who hit furthest from the dot was out. I made it through 3 rounds of the shoot-off before I finally got beat out. People were amazed that I made it to the shoot-off, and even more amazed that I was knocking compounds out. I heard quite a few "How's he doing that?" questions coming from the crowd. Wound up in 5th place for the shoot, and was one of only two traditional shooters in the field of 175 shooters.
An instinctive shooter couldn't have done it.
Not all people are athletes. Not all people have the hand/eye coordination needed. For every person who hasthe ability tofocus their concentration well enough to do it, there are a million who can't.For every Catfish Hunter or Phil Niekro or Nolan Ryan that comes along, there's a million who couldn't hit a catcher's mitt in a hundred throws. For every decent instinctive shooter who comes along, thereis a millionwho will never get the hang of it.
Pointing works with a shotgun, but that's because you've gota thick cloud of pellets going out there to the target. You wouldn't shoot a rifle withoutaiming, not if you intended to hit what you're shooting at. IMO, shooting an arrow is the same as shooting a bullet. You need to aim if you really intend to hit what you're shooting at.
Instinctive is a misnomer anyway. There is nothing instinctive about shooting a bow. It's a conditioned physical activity. You learned how to do it. Guys who beat the drum for instinctive shooting are setting the vast majority ofnewbies up for a long, hard, often frustrating learning curve. Learning to shoot purely instinctive is a LOT of trial and error. Mostly error.
Standard advice is "start really close, shoot a lot, then start moving back a little at a time as you get better." No wonder so manyinstinctive shooters cut it off as soon as they get kinda proficient at 20 yards. It takes a long time to get there. And the margin of error gets much larger the further the distance.
On the other hand, using the arrow as a sight reference, you can cut the learning curve way down. I mentioned in the other thread about having a 60 yard point-on with my old bow. I shot a 3D tournament with it once. It was an old fashioned type shoot without any classes. I wound up tied for third place with 5 others, all shooting compounds with sights. They put a coyote target out there at 60 yard with an orange sticky dot on it for the shoot-off.I was grinning inside when they did that.
The one who hit furthest from the dot was out. I made it through 3 rounds of the shoot-off before I finally got beat out. People were amazed that I made it to the shoot-off, and even more amazed that I was knocking compounds out. I heard quite a few "How's he doing that?" questions coming from the crowd. Wound up in 5th place for the shoot, and was one of only two traditional shooters in the field of 175 shooters.
An instinctive shooter couldn't have done it.
Truthfully though I could care less if I could hit at that range anyway while shooting instinctive. I'm a instinctive shooter, I was brought up that way by my Dad who's got the credentials to go on just as you do Arthur, why wouldn't I take his advice on instinctive shooting! Everyone's got there way of doing it. If you wanna aim with your arrow or whatever else people use to aim thats great, whatever works for you! I think when a person first starts out shooting these bows it really doesn't matter what you use, its what works for you when your getting your feet wet. I think as time goes on you will become more of an Instinctive shooter not even knowing thats what your doing. After reading the thread on Aiming a Traditional bow a few people said aim with your arrow so I thought I'm going to try this once and see how different it is from the way I shoot. I sucked at it! It was like I had never shot my recurve before, it was that bad. I was brought up the (Instinctive) way, thats why It didn't work for me. If I was taught different, it might of been the way for me to shoot. If people ask me for help or getting started out I'm going to give them the same advice my dad gave me when I first started out. Instinctive shooting is a very well executed plan if done right, its worked for myself and many others. What ever works for the individual is what that person should use.
01-22-2008, 10:20 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
It's not a question of credentials, Schultzy.It's a matter of different opinion. Different ways of getting to the same goal. I use the arrow. I was taught to use the arrow when I was a little kid and I've been doing it all MY life. I recommend what I know, and because I'm fully convinced it's the better way.
01-22-2008, 10:33 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 12,762
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
I've been shooting a bow for about 50 years. Started out shooting instinctively with a 15# recurve as a young boy. And I was a decent shot and harvested several deer. About 15 or so years ago my cousin gave me a book by Byron Fergeson on instinctive shooting. I read that book and started practicing the way the book described and my shooting improved. The book, and sorry, I don't remember the title, discussed everything from concentration, draw, anchor and release. I use a compound with sights more than my takedown recurve but I do take this bow out occasionally and I am still relatively good out to my max range of 20 yds. But I have to admit that I would have to practice more if I wanted to go deer hunting with it.
I know that if I'd been using a recurve shooting instinctively a few years ago on a black bear hunt in Maine I would have a P&Y black bear. As I drew my compound and was lining up the sights on him, he saw me and bolted into the spruces. With the recurve, at about 12 yds, he'd have been mine.
I know that if I'd been using a recurve shooting instinctively a few years ago on a black bear hunt in Maine I would have a P&Y black bear. As I drew my compound and was lining up the sights on him, he saw me and bolted into the spruces. With the recurve, at about 12 yds, he'd have been mine.
01-22-2008, 10:55 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
ORIGINAL: Arthur P
It's not a question of credentials, Schultzy.It's a matter of different opinion. Different ways of getting to the same goal. I use the arrow. I was taught to use the arrow when I was a little kid and I've been doing it all MY life. I recommend what I know, and because I'm fully convinced it's the better way.
It's not a question of credentials, Schultzy.It's a matter of different opinion. Different ways of getting to the same goal. I use the arrow. I was taught to use the arrow when I was a little kid and I've been doing it all MY life. I recommend what I know, and because I'm fully convinced it's the better way.
01-22-2008, 11:32 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Instinctive shooting vs throwing a baseball analogy
I guess I should have said, "I'm firmly convinced it's the better way for many people."
Not a whole lot of people these days have the free time to spare to learn pure instinctive shooting and learning to use an aiming system from the very first will get them on target and shooting fairly well in a short amount of time.
I also have a lot of years as a competitive shooter, and a lot of those targets are stretched out there a ways. If someone wants to win tournaments consistently, then they've got to have an aiming system. I know most of the big boys claim to shoot instinctive, because a lot of tournaments insist only instinctive is legal. Absolutely useless rule, because there's no way to prove or disproveit if someone's using a gap. But you can bet your life that most of 'em, if not all, are using some kind of system.
Not a whole lot of people these days have the free time to spare to learn pure instinctive shooting and learning to use an aiming system from the very first will get them on target and shooting fairly well in a short amount of time.
I also have a lot of years as a competitive shooter, and a lot of those targets are stretched out there a ways. If someone wants to win tournaments consistently, then they've got to have an aiming system. I know most of the big boys claim to shoot instinctive, because a lot of tournaments insist only instinctive is legal. Absolutely useless rule, because there's no way to prove or disproveit if someone's using a gap. But you can bet your life that most of 'em, if not all, are using some kind of system.