Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
02-11-2007, 02:02 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
Problem is, for every hunter ed instructor who teaches good info, there are 10,000 knotheads that are going to tell the newbie that's all a bunch of whooie, that speed is the end all/be all, and those ultra light arrows are the way to go.
Popular myth trumps hard facts when there isn't much brain power being applied by the masses. [&:]
Popular myth trumps hard facts when there isn't much brain power being applied by the masses. [&:]
02-11-2007, 02:51 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 93
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
Arthur,
Yep yer right ! danm shame too ! theres a lot of great info out there that supports the Traditional Bowhunter That has a sensible approach to killing big game with the idiology that a slower heavier arrow with a sharp broadhead is much more effective than a HIGH speed light weight arrow going warp -5 with a non-cut on impact head !!! Jeesh!!! The ole mighty dollar has just about sold us out to everything "right"
Tj
Yep yer right ! danm shame too ! theres a lot of great info out there that supports the Traditional Bowhunter That has a sensible approach to killing big game with the idiology that a slower heavier arrow with a sharp broadhead is much more effective than a HIGH speed light weight arrow going warp -5 with a non-cut on impact head !!! Jeesh!!! The ole mighty dollar has just about sold us out to everything "right"
Tj
02-12-2007, 09:45 AM
#13
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 59
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
Still at it, eh TJ!!! [8D]I agree with you totally concerning equipment choices. I also would agree that what is legal is not always ethical either. However, unless for multiple shots at an animal, poaching, etc., any hunter that is legally hunting, in a manner of fair chase. I cannot, would not pass ethical judgements on. A hunters personal choice of equipment is just that personal, and his or her values and judgements are intirnsic to their characrter. I have no business judging them. Other than to wish them well.
02-12-2007, 10:43 AM
#14
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 93
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
Steve,
Not judging my friend, Again this year as I was archery hunting and a Bowhunter stumbled on to my 400 acre lease "With out permission" I might add , I approached him and he quickly started to apologize for tresspassing and headmitted he had a wounded deer that he had been trailing all morning, since I was still hunting I didn,t get a chance to see the deer as it probably was well ahead of my path. First thing I did was view his choice of equipment, A compound no problem with me, Carbon arrows eem , I started to wonder how light they were ,and then the Mechanical broadhead preatty much gave me a case of the a$$.
Well knowing this guy needed help and he kept waiting for me to let him look for his deer I had already did my hunt and he was molesting any further chance of a deer for me soI volunteered to help him look for his deer.
We started out looking for this deer and I asked him where he hit the deer and he said ,,AS ALWAYS ,,"RIGHT IN THE BOILER ROOM", We went a ways and we found the Arrow, and the broadhead ! it was a tangled up mess ! looked like a damm bird point ! the arrow had about 3" of blood down the shaft I had figured this deer was half way across the next county by now, I told him we would set for a while. As we sat there he started studying my recurve,he asked me what # it was ,I told him 93# he said what does that equall out to a 55# compound ? I laughed, he then aked me why i was using such a small arrow 2018's , I told him that I had a 1716 sleeved inside for a 860 grain arrow, skinny ,stiff and EXTREMELY hard hitting, He stared at my Zwickeys and asked me why waste the time with those and you can use these already sharp broadheads like the ones he was using,he then went totally quiet ! And he then asked me how many deer I had ever killed with a recurve, I told him 42 andhe was in shock ! He asked me if I thought we would find this deer, I told him NOPE ! but we looked a few more HOURS and the blood didn,t last long, And we gave up. Everything this guy was using was legal ! from the 50#bowweight to the damm 12" stabalizer, to the super light arrows,and that mech.broadhead ! all legal !! but to mehis choice of gearwasn,t ethical and there was a wounded deer to prove it! We talked over a couple beers at my spike camp and I think I convinced him thet the compound was a great weapon as long as the choice of arrow weight,and broadheads were conducive for the game being hunted, again I feel a Bowhunter ED. course should be mandatory EVERY WHERE !
tJ
Not judging my friend, Again this year as I was archery hunting and a Bowhunter stumbled on to my 400 acre lease "With out permission" I might add , I approached him and he quickly started to apologize for tresspassing and headmitted he had a wounded deer that he had been trailing all morning, since I was still hunting I didn,t get a chance to see the deer as it probably was well ahead of my path. First thing I did was view his choice of equipment, A compound no problem with me, Carbon arrows eem , I started to wonder how light they were ,and then the Mechanical broadhead preatty much gave me a case of the a$$.
Well knowing this guy needed help and he kept waiting for me to let him look for his deer I had already did my hunt and he was molesting any further chance of a deer for me soI volunteered to help him look for his deer.
We started out looking for this deer and I asked him where he hit the deer and he said ,,AS ALWAYS ,,"RIGHT IN THE BOILER ROOM", We went a ways and we found the Arrow, and the broadhead ! it was a tangled up mess ! looked like a damm bird point ! the arrow had about 3" of blood down the shaft I had figured this deer was half way across the next county by now, I told him we would set for a while. As we sat there he started studying my recurve,he asked me what # it was ,I told him 93# he said what does that equall out to a 55# compound ? I laughed, he then aked me why i was using such a small arrow 2018's , I told him that I had a 1716 sleeved inside for a 860 grain arrow, skinny ,stiff and EXTREMELY hard hitting, He stared at my Zwickeys and asked me why waste the time with those and you can use these already sharp broadheads like the ones he was using,he then went totally quiet ! And he then asked me how many deer I had ever killed with a recurve, I told him 42 andhe was in shock ! He asked me if I thought we would find this deer, I told him NOPE ! but we looked a few more HOURS and the blood didn,t last long, And we gave up. Everything this guy was using was legal ! from the 50#bowweight to the damm 12" stabalizer, to the super light arrows,and that mech.broadhead ! all legal !! but to mehis choice of gearwasn,t ethical and there was a wounded deer to prove it! We talked over a couple beers at my spike camp and I think I convinced him thet the compound was a great weapon as long as the choice of arrow weight,and broadheads were conducive for the game being hunted, again I feel a Bowhunter ED. course should be mandatory EVERY WHERE !
tJ
02-12-2007, 11:06 AM
#15
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 59
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
I agree with you there, TJ. 100% !!! The problem is.. we practice an art. Which is known largely to a select majority in the age group of 45 plus. I can't imagine using a broadhead I didn't hand file and sharpen myself. But.. different time, things change. I had a guy ask me one day, does that longbow have enough KE to actually kill a deer? It was not the first time, I got the usual, "you hunt with that"? Which only expresses to me how little most bowhunters today know. And they know nothing but the compound. I do however, go out on a limb in my hunter education classes, and I am very explicit about NOT to use mechnical heads. For the obvious reasons and experiences you describe. BTW... I hope the guy went out and bought a recurve!
02-12-2007, 12:31 PM
#16
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,381
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
Tj Craig
I shoot a LOT. I shoot a 53# longbow at 28" draw, 29" carbons weighted to 525-550 grain depending on the broadheads I've used. I do everything "right" from knowing my equipment to practicing to hunting to picking my shots.
I've killed 1 buck, missed a big elk, wounded 4 deer in the past 3 years. Thats horrible success rate.
Am I morally and ethically wrong ? You'd not say so after reading the first paragraph.
A guy I know don't shoot much. He's not into practice like I am. He has a short draw, 25"and a 49# bow. He's killed a couple of does and 3 bucks in the past 2 years. I can outshoot him at anytime on the range. I take "better" shots than he does. His deer die, mine don't for whatever reason. Not as "ethical and moral' as me ? He's killing the animals though, go figure
Another guy I know shot a big elk almost walking away from him. The broadhead sliced al the way along the outside of the rib cage, went in behind the soulder and lodged in the back of the neck. NEVER entered the body cavity. Big bull, bad shot, TERRIBLE shot really ....... bull bled out after a mile of bloodtrailing.
Good shots, bad shots, ethical, moral .......... all are dependent only on the shooter himself I think at the time of the shot, and all depend on the outcome of the shot too. No one but the hunter himself can say a shot was or wasn't bad.
I shoot a LOT. I shoot a 53# longbow at 28" draw, 29" carbons weighted to 525-550 grain depending on the broadheads I've used. I do everything "right" from knowing my equipment to practicing to hunting to picking my shots.
I've killed 1 buck, missed a big elk, wounded 4 deer in the past 3 years. Thats horrible success rate.
Am I morally and ethically wrong ? You'd not say so after reading the first paragraph.
A guy I know don't shoot much. He's not into practice like I am. He has a short draw, 25"and a 49# bow. He's killed a couple of does and 3 bucks in the past 2 years. I can outshoot him at anytime on the range. I take "better" shots than he does. His deer die, mine don't for whatever reason. Not as "ethical and moral' as me ? He's killing the animals though, go figure
Another guy I know shot a big elk almost walking away from him. The broadhead sliced al the way along the outside of the rib cage, went in behind the soulder and lodged in the back of the neck. NEVER entered the body cavity. Big bull, bad shot, TERRIBLE shot really ....... bull bled out after a mile of bloodtrailing.
Good shots, bad shots, ethical, moral .......... all are dependent only on the shooter himself I think at the time of the shot, and all depend on the outcome of the shot too. No one but the hunter himself can say a shot was or wasn't bad.
02-12-2007, 01:42 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 93
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
BUSTER,
Your talking "ABILITY" ! Iam talking equipment choice as it pertains to ethics, But since you opened that can up I'll go there ! if your ratio is that bad maybe you should use a rifle , jmho
Tj
Your talking "ABILITY" ! Iam talking equipment choice as it pertains to ethics, But since you opened that can up I'll go there ! if your ratio is that bad maybe you should use a rifle , jmho
Tj
02-12-2007, 02:00 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nashville, Ohio
Posts: 1,109
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
I have just taken up the sport of traditional archery. I have a 40# Browning Wasp that is in exellent condition. I have just decided on a arrow/broadhead combo. I have decided to go with the Carbon Express Heritage 350 shaft(I like the durability of carbon)at 12 gpi with a 8.5 g nock, an 11 g insert and 11.4 g of fletching. I am going with a 125 g Simmons Landshark for a broadhead. Is this setup acceptable? I have been bow hunting for 7 years so i do know a bit, but not in the traditional field.
02-12-2007, 02:12 PM
#19
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Bow Weight,Arrow weight, and ETHICS ?
If your finished arrow weight is 400 grains or better, and you can get the Landshark razor sharp (assuming it's the 2 blade with no bleeders), be selective with your shots, make sure you have perfect arrow flight (a wobbly arrow will rob you of penetration), and of course be able to put the arrow in the spot, your set-up should be fine for whitetail and smaller game.
Chad
Chad