Alot of questions about wood arrows.
08-10-2005, 11:04 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: some were
Posts: 801
Alot of questions about wood arrows.
I just got back from my first 3d shoot with a long bow. I realized that if I am going to hunt small game with this bow I will need to find cheeper arrows. I dont know any cheeper way too make them then to do it withraw material. I am working on ajig (I dont know what else to call it) that takes square dowls and makes them round, its cool.What is a good shaft size to start with. I am not that worried about spine yet I just want to get some shafts to try out.
Here are a few questions.
If just exparimenting with shafts do I need to put finish on the?
Were can I find cheeper feathers, Ipay$6 for 12 now.
As for wood, I am just going to try different types. Maple, Ash, Aspen, Oak, and so on,should I stay away from any of these? I have, or can get board of these woods. (I heard oak dosnt make a good arrow, but I have a hudge log in my back yard, 500 arrows in it
, and its all ready to go)
I hear the most about cedar, but from what I havenoticed it is not cheep, is there any wereI can get it cheep.
When fletching is there a certent way that the grain of the arrow must face, so they dont brake.
I will have more questions once I start production.
Here are a few questions.
If just exparimenting with shafts do I need to put finish on the?
Were can I find cheeper feathers, Ipay$6 for 12 now.
As for wood, I am just going to try different types. Maple, Ash, Aspen, Oak, and so on,should I stay away from any of these? I have, or can get board of these woods. (I heard oak dosnt make a good arrow, but I have a hudge log in my back yard, 500 arrows in it
, and its all ready to go) I hear the most about cedar, but from what I havenoticed it is not cheep, is there any wereI can get it cheep.
When fletching is there a certent way that the grain of the arrow must face, so they dont brake.
I will have more questions once I start production.
08-10-2005, 11:52 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
George Tsoukalas has some good instructions about making arrows from scratch on his site. http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/archer.html The way prices are going, I'm about to take up making my own arrow shafts too. I used to get cedar shafts in hundred lots for what you have to pay for a dozen now.[&o] But then, I remember when gas was 13 cents a gallon too.
08-10-2005, 12:14 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
Guss, I don't think you realize the size of the project you are thinking about. Turning your own shafts, at least decent ones, is going to take a lot of time, wood, and patience. You will need tight, straight grained wood, and you will definately want consistent spine. This means getting a spine tester and learning how to use it properly. You will also want to stay within a reasonable weight range--I like no more than 10-20 grains difference in my arrows. You may get several different spines out of the same board, and you will have to cull a lot of wood due to grain, knots, etc. You will need equipment--a way to dry the wood, a moisture meter, saws, etc. and you will have to maintain them.
Maple, ash, and hickory will make a decent arrow but they are tough to keep straight. When people talk about cedar arrows, they are referring to Port Orford cedar, that only grows on the CA/OR border. Red cedar won't make a good arrow.
To get to the point, you will most likely wind up spending quite a bit more than you would if you just buy the arrows. One alternative could be rivercane, which seems to make a pretty good arrow and if it grows in your area it's free. There's a good reason why good wood shafts aren't cheap--it takes a lot of time and knowledge, not to mention the expense of buying and maintaining equipment.
I might be able to help with feathers--p.m. me for more info.
When you glue your nock on a wood arrow, align it so the string will be across the grain. Feather placement isn't important concerning the grain.
This is just the tip of the iceberg--I know very little about making shafting, other than it's a lot more work and expense than I want to take on.
Chad
Maple, ash, and hickory will make a decent arrow but they are tough to keep straight. When people talk about cedar arrows, they are referring to Port Orford cedar, that only grows on the CA/OR border. Red cedar won't make a good arrow.
To get to the point, you will most likely wind up spending quite a bit more than you would if you just buy the arrows. One alternative could be rivercane, which seems to make a pretty good arrow and if it grows in your area it's free. There's a good reason why good wood shafts aren't cheap--it takes a lot of time and knowledge, not to mention the expense of buying and maintaining equipment.
I might be able to help with feathers--p.m. me for more info.
When you glue your nock on a wood arrow, align it so the string will be across the grain. Feather placement isn't important concerning the grain.
This is just the tip of the iceberg--I know very little about making shafting, other than it's a lot more work and expense than I want to take on.
Chad
08-10-2005, 01:52 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: some were
Posts: 801
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
Thanks Guys. I have been reading lots and talking to a few people about making shafts. I am not looking for shafts for hunting Big game, I just want some that I can shoot at grouse, rabits, and any thing else that is leagle. As for the tools I have most of them on hand, and the jig I want to make will take a mater of anhour or 2 tomake.The only thing I need is a good sorce of wood. I just got off the phone with a guy who can sell me some ash at a good price, I herd it makes good arrows. I am not that worried about putting time into this, it is some thing I would like to get good at. It may take a while but I figur it willbe fun. I have given up the thought of precut cedar shafts, to much money.
The other day I made a selfnock and it was not hard, learned how in this mounthsTraditional Bow hunter.
Maybe all I will do is make a bunch of second rate dowles but I would like to give it a shot and see what I can do, wish me luck I am going to work on my jig.
The other day I made a selfnock and it was not hard, learned how in this mounthsTraditional Bow hunter.
Maybe all I will do is make a bunch of second rate dowles but I would like to give it a shot and see what I can do, wish me luck I am going to work on my jig.
08-10-2005, 04:39 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
Ash is super tough for arrows, but also very heavy had a devil to keep straight. Should be great for small game and stumping. You might drive your local hardware store owner nuts by going through their dowels--you can flex them by hand and after a while get a feel for what should be close to the right spine, and check the grain before you buy them. These are usually ramin wood--also tough.
Like anything else that is gaining popularity, our sport is becoming more and more expensive. That's the way it goes when there's a good market for a product.
Good luck with the shafting!
Chad
Like anything else that is gaining popularity, our sport is becoming more and more expensive. That's the way it goes when there's a good market for a product.
Good luck with the shafting!
Chad
08-11-2005, 08:03 AM
#6
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,964
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
I agree with LBR, That is a time consuming project, what I do is watch Ebay sales and when I find a dozen or so that I think are good and cheap I bid.
I just got one dozen with practice tips beautifull fletching and colors for $20 plus $4 shipping , you can't beat that. I also got some unused vintage arrows with broadheads for $24 and they are Flawless.
I have wasted a lot of time building arrows, no more ebay is for me.
I just got one dozen with practice tips beautifull fletching and colors for $20 plus $4 shipping , you can't beat that. I also got some unused vintage arrows with broadheads for $24 and they are Flawless.
I have wasted a lot of time building arrows, no more ebay is for me.
08-11-2005, 02:13 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: some were
Posts: 801
RE: Alot of questions about wood arrows.
I already am on the comp to much. Ebay to me seems like more work then makeing arrows. I have used it once and hated it, stresful 
. I am going to give this a shot, if it dosnt work I will be out a few bucks and some wood, that was just siting in my dads barn.
. I am going to give this a shot, if it dosnt work I will be out a few bucks and some wood, that was just siting in my dads barn.
08-12-2005, 01:54 AM
#8
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 493
RE: A lot of questions about wood arrows.
Guss,
I agree with LBR. I used to buy cedar shafting by the 100's. You'd be amazed the variation of spines you'd get in 100 shafts! 35-40#, 40-45#, 45-50#, 50-55# would all be in one bundle after I ran thru thru my Adam's Spine Tester (not a cheap tool in itself either).
No one shoots wood arrows because they are cheaper. They shoot them because they LIKE wood.
If I factored all the work, materials, etc. (which was a labor of love - for me anyway) it'd probably been cheaper for me just to buy Easton Game Getter arrows and be done with it.
You figure you need a spine tester, taper tool, stain, shaft clear coat, cresting tools, paint and brushes (if you get into doing that on your arrows as well), etc. The investment of tools alone will cost ya a bit of cash.
Wood shafts require more work in inspecting them after an outing for damage. You also have to keep an eye on them to keep them straight.
G. Fred Asbell said right in his own book that making wood arrows usually doesn't save the builder A LOT of money. Its usually done because people LIKE making their own stuff, want a winter project to work on, etc.
Hope this helps.
PS FS Archery in Calif sellsPort Orford cedar shafts at decent prices. PS 100 cedar shafts now cost $144/8 dz- thats $1.44 ea. Not cheap these days.
I agree with LBR. I used to buy cedar shafting by the 100's. You'd be amazed the variation of spines you'd get in 100 shafts! 35-40#, 40-45#, 45-50#, 50-55# would all be in one bundle after I ran thru thru my Adam's Spine Tester (not a cheap tool in itself either).
No one shoots wood arrows because they are cheaper. They shoot them because they LIKE wood.
If I factored all the work, materials, etc. (which was a labor of love - for me anyway) it'd probably been cheaper for me just to buy Easton Game Getter arrows and be done with it.
You figure you need a spine tester, taper tool, stain, shaft clear coat, cresting tools, paint and brushes (if you get into doing that on your arrows as well), etc. The investment of tools alone will cost ya a bit of cash.
Wood shafts require more work in inspecting them after an outing for damage. You also have to keep an eye on them to keep them straight.
G. Fred Asbell said right in his own book that making wood arrows usually doesn't save the builder A LOT of money. Its usually done because people LIKE making their own stuff, want a winter project to work on, etc.
Hope this helps.
PS FS Archery in Calif sellsPort Orford cedar shafts at decent prices. PS 100 cedar shafts now cost $144/8 dz- thats $1.44 ea. Not cheap these days.
08-12-2005, 04:30 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 612
RE: A lot of questions about wood arrows.
You can save money making your own arrows, but you need to like to do it or it probably isn't enough to make it worth it. Call shaft suppliers and let them know that you want stump shooter/small game shafts and they will generally have some lower grade shafts that are reasonable. Ash definately stands up better than cedar, though as stated above, need straightening more often. Ramin wood (dowels) is a good material, but you'll have a tough time finding any that can be straightened to where they are shootable. If you foot your cedar shafts with a hardwood, they will stand up MUCH better. The jig to turn your own will work, but will be alot of work. You will also have to consider what kind of wood you are going to turn, and will have a tough time getting consistancy in spine/weight. Feathers need to be bought in bulk, if you want to save money. Too pricey by the dozen. Good luck to you!
08-12-2005, 10:39 AM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississippi USA
Posts: 15,296
RE: A lot of questions about wood arrows.
A note about F/S wood shafts. First, I'll say I haven't bought from them in several years, so things may have changed by now. I don't plan on buying any from them again though.
I used to buy quite a bit there, mainly because they had good prices. They goofed now and then, but always made it right.
Well, I ordered some "Select" chundoo. I got the order (the box was NOT damaged) and brought out the shafts. I can't remember if it was 2 or 3 dozen I'd ordered, but of those there were some that were cracked, and at least one that was completely broken. I called up customer service, and told the lady that answered the phone about my problem. Her reply was "Well, you DID order SELECT shafting!". I never got a refund, replacement, or anything else, and I haven't spent a dime with them since.
In my experience, cheap wood shafting is just that--cheap. I've found some good deals here and there, but as long as I shoot wood I'll pay more and get good shafts. I don't have the time or money to invest in making my own--not any that I'd shoot anyhow.
I've been giving it more thought, and I feel like I should add this--without good arrows, you will never reach your full potential as an archer--you won't know ifit's you making a mistake, or something wrong with the arrow. In his book, "Become the Arrow", Byron Ferguson quotes an old Indian as saying something along the lines of "Any old stick will work for a bow, but it takes a heap of work to make a good arrow!".
Chad
I used to buy quite a bit there, mainly because they had good prices. They goofed now and then, but always made it right.
Well, I ordered some "Select" chundoo. I got the order (the box was NOT damaged) and brought out the shafts. I can't remember if it was 2 or 3 dozen I'd ordered, but of those there were some that were cracked, and at least one that was completely broken. I called up customer service, and told the lady that answered the phone about my problem. Her reply was "Well, you DID order SELECT shafting!". I never got a refund, replacement, or anything else, and I haven't spent a dime with them since.
In my experience, cheap wood shafting is just that--cheap. I've found some good deals here and there, but as long as I shoot wood I'll pay more and get good shafts. I don't have the time or money to invest in making my own--not any that I'd shoot anyhow.
I've been giving it more thought, and I feel like I should add this--without good arrows, you will never reach your full potential as an archer--you won't know ifit's you making a mistake, or something wrong with the arrow. In his book, "Become the Arrow", Byron Ferguson quotes an old Indian as saying something along the lines of "Any old stick will work for a bow, but it takes a heap of work to make a good arrow!".
Chad