Swamp Dawg

Ditto.

I don't understand how it could affect the tune if the arrow has already left the bow by the time the string contacts the Sims suppressor?????

Len in Maryland

SD:

Quote:

If you are shooting a relatively light arrow, you could increase your arrow weight. I have not had any tuning issues with the STS thus far, but it does seem to increase string noise just a bit. It definitely illiminates all vibration and shock on my Liberty.

First, I'm shooting an arrow that is pretty close to 6 grains/pound; not a light arrow by today's standards. Even if that were the case, isn't the STS supposed to compensate for that?? But. where I heard the most increase in string slap was on a 70# new bow that I was trying to quiet down. There was nothing on the string but a string loop and the arrows being used were a variety of weights from 5.5 to 6.5 gpp. I do see that you concur with the possiblity of increased string noise.

The tuning issue occurred on MY personal bow. In one position tuning was not affected. In a different position it WAS affected. Therefore, the tuning can be affected depending on where it contacts the string. IMPO, the Mathews design is superior in that it equalizes the contact on a 'balanced' string. By hitting/stopping a string at one point not equal from both ends, string oscillation/harmonics can occur. This is where problems can occur.

As far as reducing shock and vibration, so far I have to concur and I so stated in my post. I just can't comprehend that you have shock and vibration on a Liberty. What I want to get out to fellow archers is that they shouldn't just think of this as a 'bolt on' device that has nothing but positive results.[]

walks with a gimp

I'm a bit skeptical myself due to my neighbor last summer putting a Saunders Buzz Buster on his BlackKnight. It did quiet his 70 pound flamethrower but he said that the first arrow he shot went about a foot high at 30 yards.

Len, what do you think of a dual system that mounts near each limb pocket?? I'm sure you remember the Bear Delta V?? It would not be like the Delta V with the hard rubber stops but more "modern" and adjustable

Straightarrow

I posted negatively about a product a couple times and took verbal beatings for a week each time (not legitimate arguments, but personal attacks). It appears that most wlll defend their equipment as if it were their child or their own company. I quickly learned to keep manufacturers names out of posts unless you have something good to say about them, or are looking for a good fight. I think many have experienced the same. Unfortunately, this makes for a much worse forum for truely finding out about a product. You'll hear a lot of praise, but many of the ones who disagree will keep quiet.

_________________________
As for the irregular vibration problem, do you have a quiver on the bow? If so, maybe an arrow is loose, but only when in a particular spot. One thing I do with all my bows is to put a layer of moleskin anywhere an accessory is attached to the bow. I eliminate any metal to metal contact and it helps greatly with vibration. I also put a medium threadlock on any bolt that I'm not likely to want to adjust or move.

gibblet

the biggest thing i like about it is that i can shoot with my big winter jacket on, which, being warm will keep me in a tree longer. as sad as that may sound, its true for me. when i'm freezing i have a tendency to get discouraged. i prefer to be 'cool', not hot or cold. i like to have some thermals, sweats, and a hunting jacket under my 3d suit when its cold outside and i usually have to rig up some kind of sock or something around my bow arm to make sure that from any angle i won't get string contact. i've done testing with this and i have a lot more room now and that makes me very happy.

Len in Maryland

Walks:

I was thinking the same thing for two reasons. First, you would double the impact area and probably reduce any string noise even more. This would be similar to the Mathews system only mounted closer to the center of the string. Second, by having the double system, you would 'balance' the impact which is also similar to the Mathews system. This is why I said I liked the Mathews system better.

SA:

I know all too well about making any negative comments about peoples' 'pets'. I'll give you some examples of what I've taken a LOT of heat about over the years:
1. Nock travel
2. Tolerance variances from spec
3. Cracks developing at the nock area on arrows
4. Arrow straightness/tolerance problems
5. Draw length variances from spec
6. Draw weight variances from spec
7. Speed variances from spec
8. Reflex/deflex affects
9. Problems with many rests - I won't mention any names

In every instance I've been vindicated over time. Sometimes it takes years for people to realize that there is substance to what I post. I have the same problem in my shop at times. At least there I can show the customers my test data first hand.

In many cases the information I give is to educate by offering alternative thinking. I will give the positives of a particular product and then the negatives, and suggest that the customer weigh the differences based on his/her application or economic ability. I use this same technique when I give seminars.

It's best to understand that people are very defensive about their purchases. They've already made their choice and now they find out that there may be problems with that choice. It's like telling them that they may have made a mistake and they don't like to hear that; especially when the problems have not been 'visible' to them.

You'll also find a lot of 'staff shooters' on these forums. They tend to attack whenever you make any comment other than positive about their sponsors. Their attacks are usually the most vicious and they call in their 'troops' to hit you with force. I could mention some name brand loyalty, but that would lead to another battle.

Swamp Dawg

Thanks for posting your findings, Len. The main reason I wanted to try the STS out was that the Liberty is not a speed burner in the first place. I wanted to eliminate as much weight as possible from the string. I've only tested some 355 grain Beman ICS Hunters (.400) at 29.5"draw and 70lbs. There was a drastic reduction in vibration and hand shock. (I had already taken off the factory hush kit from the string). I need to test my hunting arrows which are 398 gr. ACC 3-60's. Probably will not be that big of a difference. I just wish I could get rid of that "thump" it makes when the string hits the suppressor. I've heard you can play around with the placement of the suppressor and get better performance. Right now I have it about 1/32" off the string. Guess I should try a few different postions to see if I can improve it a little.

PABowhntr

The fact that you are experiencing vibration during some shots and not others sends up a red flag for me. Many of the previously mentioned suggestions could be the culprit but without actually handling the bow I would be hard-pressed to say for sure one way or the other.

Cougar Mag

Uh, I hope Len reads this again. Its off the main subject, but I would sure like to read more about cracks around the nock area on some arrows. It wouldn't bother me a bit to have brands mentioned as well. Maybe a new topic?

walks with a gimp

Len, I was thinking about a machined-in boss inboard of each limb pockets (to not interfere with a bow press) and using dual carbon rods with aluminum fittings for attaching the Limb Savers to. The adjustment could be done at the string ends of the rods with the threaded aluminum Limb Saver "bases" and set screws. The carbon rods could be glued and set screwed into the riser bases for a secure mount. I'm thinking that there would be less stress on each with two rods taking the pounding and mounting them closer to the cams, the speed of the string would be less than at the nock area and result in longer wear. The carbon rods might also have rubber silencers on them like what BowTech puts on their guide rods