If push came to shove
09-13-2002, 06:10 PM
#71
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: If push came to shove
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I want to ask where the big revelation came from that mechanicals are the "cure-all" to poor form and tuning? This is utter nonsense IMO. A well tuned bow is a well tuned bow, regardless of whether it utilizes fixed or mechanical broadheads. A well tuned bow is no more affected by wind at hunting distances when utilizing fixed heads than it is when shooting mechanicals. The only variables that come into play here are whether or not an archer takes the time to properly tune their bow, and fixed-blade heads will show the archer that their equipment is not correctly tuned, whereas mechanicals "mask" this. That's it.
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/13/2002 17:17:22
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I'll go on record agreeing with that statement!
I use fixed and mechs , simply because I like to buy new toys! I've heard good things about the snypers , so guess what I bought this year<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I also think todays mechs are better than the old.
The scariest part of Pinwheels statement is that alot of hunters will buy mechs to fix a problem that could be fixed at the source and they wont even bother to shoot the mechs because their told that they all fly the same as their field points.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
I know this is a little off topic guys , but I have an opportunity to buy some magnus stingers for dirt cheap. The only problem is , they are the glue on type for wooden shafts. With my recurve I use the 2018 alluminums. Can the glue ons be converted over to an insert?
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
I want to ask where the big revelation came from that mechanicals are the "cure-all" to poor form and tuning? This is utter nonsense IMO. A well tuned bow is a well tuned bow, regardless of whether it utilizes fixed or mechanical broadheads. A well tuned bow is no more affected by wind at hunting distances when utilizing fixed heads than it is when shooting mechanicals. The only variables that come into play here are whether or not an archer takes the time to properly tune their bow, and fixed-blade heads will show the archer that their equipment is not correctly tuned, whereas mechanicals "mask" this. That's it.
Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 09/13/2002 17:17:22
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I'll go on record agreeing with that statement!
I use fixed and mechs , simply because I like to buy new toys! I've heard good things about the snypers , so guess what I bought this year<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
I also think todays mechs are better than the old.
The scariest part of Pinwheels statement is that alot of hunters will buy mechs to fix a problem that could be fixed at the source and they wont even bother to shoot the mechs because their told that they all fly the same as their field points.<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>
I know this is a little off topic guys , but I have an opportunity to buy some magnus stingers for dirt cheap. The only problem is , they are the glue on type for wooden shafts. With my recurve I use the 2018 alluminums. Can the glue ons be converted over to an insert?
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
09-13-2002, 06:15 PM
#72
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: If push came to shove
I could live with either if I had too. But if I just had to pick one it would be a fixed blade head....
Now the rest of the story....
It seems like there isn't a thread that talks about mechanicals that doesn't contain a lot of hostility towards them. That always bothers me for some reason. While I wouldn't consider myself an expert in the mechanical field, I am no beginner either. I have harvested 10 deer with mechanicals ranging from 135 inch 300+ pound brute to single mature doe. Of these 10 kills I used five different manufacturers of the broadheads and seven different models. I would tell you that I have never experienced a broadhead failure or lost an animal because of a mechanical head. I have stated before that the broadhead that did the most tissue damage of any head that I have used, whether it be fixed or mechanical, was Rocket's Hammerhead 3L. This head CONSISTANTLY gave me better blood trails and quicker kills than any head I have used. The kicker is one has to shoot enough KE energy (60 ft. lbs of KE, is the least I have tried with the Hammerhead 3L) to insure a pass through. But hey, I have seen a number of deer shot in the hunting videos with fixed blade heads where they did not get a pass through. I guess all I am saying is that the mechanicals sometimes get a bad rap if a problem occured when in reality it is operator error.
On the flip side concerning the wind issue and mechanicals. If I am shooting in a stiff cross wind I have reservations about using a mech. In my experience arrow flight is drastically affected (fish tailing) therefore robbing the arrow of precious energy. If there is a chance that I am not going to get a pass through I want the arrow sticking out of the animal to have a razor sharp fixed blade head on the end of it.
Edited by - Antler Eater on 09/14/2002 09:18:07
Now the rest of the story....
It seems like there isn't a thread that talks about mechanicals that doesn't contain a lot of hostility towards them. That always bothers me for some reason. While I wouldn't consider myself an expert in the mechanical field, I am no beginner either. I have harvested 10 deer with mechanicals ranging from 135 inch 300+ pound brute to single mature doe. Of these 10 kills I used five different manufacturers of the broadheads and seven different models. I would tell you that I have never experienced a broadhead failure or lost an animal because of a mechanical head. I have stated before that the broadhead that did the most tissue damage of any head that I have used, whether it be fixed or mechanical, was Rocket's Hammerhead 3L. This head CONSISTANTLY gave me better blood trails and quicker kills than any head I have used. The kicker is one has to shoot enough KE energy (60 ft. lbs of KE, is the least I have tried with the Hammerhead 3L) to insure a pass through. But hey, I have seen a number of deer shot in the hunting videos with fixed blade heads where they did not get a pass through. I guess all I am saying is that the mechanicals sometimes get a bad rap if a problem occured when in reality it is operator error.
On the flip side concerning the wind issue and mechanicals. If I am shooting in a stiff cross wind I have reservations about using a mech. In my experience arrow flight is drastically affected (fish tailing) therefore robbing the arrow of precious energy. If there is a chance that I am not going to get a pass through I want the arrow sticking out of the animal to have a razor sharp fixed blade head on the end of it.
Edited by - Antler Eater on 09/14/2002 09:18:07
09-14-2002, 01:41 AM
#73
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: If push came to shove
First things first. To answer the original question, I would choose fixed blade broadheads. My reasoning is this.....I have never had much trouble getting them to group extremely well, plus I feel that on real,live animals they do penetrate at least as good as the best mechanical head.
Some have brought up the point about accuracy in high winds. If winds are high enough to blow a fixed blade off course, then they are high enough that you should`nt be flinging field tips at them either. On windy days, limit your shooting range.
I am not anti mechanical heads, and I will admit that I have much more confidence in mechanical heads(some of them) since joining this board. After reading countless posts, you start to get a pretty good indication on who is truly knowledgable, and who the windbags are. Well, some of the members that I now consider to be very knowledgable really like some mechanicals. That does`nt mean that I am ready to switch!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> In my case, it ain`t broken, so I ain`t fixing it, even if ArthurP is going over to the dark side!
And Pinwheel 12, what do you mean about the early mathews having horrible nock travel!
I had the first solo-cam in my neck of the woods by a long shot, and nock travel was`nt even an issue. It is amazing what a new string and cable every two weeks can do for ya!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
Some have brought up the point about accuracy in high winds. If winds are high enough to blow a fixed blade off course, then they are high enough that you should`nt be flinging field tips at them either. On windy days, limit your shooting range.
I am not anti mechanical heads, and I will admit that I have much more confidence in mechanical heads(some of them) since joining this board. After reading countless posts, you start to get a pretty good indication on who is truly knowledgable, and who the windbags are. Well, some of the members that I now consider to be very knowledgable really like some mechanicals. That does`nt mean that I am ready to switch!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> In my case, it ain`t broken, so I ain`t fixing it, even if ArthurP is going over to the dark side!
And Pinwheel 12, what do you mean about the early mathews having horrible nock travel!
I had the first solo-cam in my neck of the woods by a long shot, and nock travel was`nt even an issue. It is amazing what a new string and cable every two weeks can do for ya!<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA
09-14-2002, 05:06 AM
#74
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: If push came to shove
See, it's like I've said before many times, whatever you feel comfortable with and what each individual has had good luck with and what makes them feel the most comfortable with is fine with me. Whatever floats your boat.Most people are going to shoot whatever they want to anyway until they learn the correct way on their own, in fact I feel like I'm spitting in the wind sometimes trying to help point archers in the right direction!(and everyone wonders where all the techs have gone and why they do not post anymore? LOL) In the end I guess everyone has to learn some things for themselves! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good luck!
JeffB-
I know Riley has passed, and I did not mean to sound callous about him or his products or methods and I do hold high respect for the deceased, but the fact remains that those heads were designed to help eliminate any so-called "tuning problems" associated with ANY bow with fixed-broadheads, and was magnified by the early solos that had many gremlins associated with this issue. If you worked in a shop back then you should readily know this to be fact. I suppose it's not just me that is biased, maybe? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>(in reality we all are to some extent, and this is understood.)
On the other point--
Yes, the early solos(not just Mathews, but all of them) had TERRIBLE nock travel issues, that is why Mathews came out with the self-proclaimed "Straightline" cam a few years later. Want a second opinion? Ask Len about his crankboard testing for nock travel on some of these bows also! They were NASTY. They are much better now I will add. (to calm the fears of those defending them)
Anyway---
I'm going into my stand tomorrow morning with my twin cam and fixed-blades, and get my batteries recharged. Nothing beats sitting in my stand sucking it all in, not even bantering with all of you!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I'll let you know how things progress. Good Luck, and good shooting to all this season! Whatever you shoot, make sure it's accurate please! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
JeffB-
I know Riley has passed, and I did not mean to sound callous about him or his products or methods and I do hold high respect for the deceased, but the fact remains that those heads were designed to help eliminate any so-called "tuning problems" associated with ANY bow with fixed-broadheads, and was magnified by the early solos that had many gremlins associated with this issue. If you worked in a shop back then you should readily know this to be fact. I suppose it's not just me that is biased, maybe? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>(in reality we all are to some extent, and this is understood.)
On the other point--
Yes, the early solos(not just Mathews, but all of them) had TERRIBLE nock travel issues, that is why Mathews came out with the self-proclaimed "Straightline" cam a few years later. Want a second opinion? Ask Len about his crankboard testing for nock travel on some of these bows also! They were NASTY. They are much better now I will add. (to calm the fears of those defending them)
Anyway---
I'm going into my stand tomorrow morning with my twin cam and fixed-blades, and get my batteries recharged. Nothing beats sitting in my stand sucking it all in, not even bantering with all of you!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I'll let you know how things progress. Good Luck, and good shooting to all this season! Whatever you shoot, make sure it's accurate please! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12
09-14-2002, 05:28 AM
#75
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: If push came to shove
PW,
Hey, there's nothing you could say about the man that wouldupset me. After getting to know him and his circle fo friends, I came to the conclusion that they were not the type of folks I'd like to know.
My point regarding singelcam nock travel was simply applying to Riley and his design. Singlecams were not available when he started making those heads, nor did he know what one was. I could tell ya some of the reasons cited back then by the gang for designing them, and one would include a less than tuned bow, but there were other reasons that were...hmmm...think PC Jeff..less than admirable.
JeffB
Hey, there's nothing you could say about the man that wouldupset me. After getting to know him and his circle fo friends, I came to the conclusion that they were not the type of folks I'd like to know.
My point regarding singelcam nock travel was simply applying to Riley and his design. Singlecams were not available when he started making those heads, nor did he know what one was. I could tell ya some of the reasons cited back then by the gang for designing them, and one would include a less than tuned bow, but there were other reasons that were...hmmm...think PC Jeff..less than admirable.
JeffB
09-14-2002, 07:36 AM
#76
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: If push came to shove
Thanks Jeff for the reply and comments. I think I now know where you are coming from on this, so I won't keep this subject going any longer and we'll simply let Riley rest in peace.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12
