Violent Shock
09-06-2002, 03:49 AM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Orangeburg NY Orangeburg, NY USA
Posts: 310
Violent Shock
Just got my bow back from shop after tune up, new string and cables. Went from shooting XX75's to carbon arrows. I noticed that there is alot more shock in the limbs now and the bow is far from quiet. Is that due to the weight change in the arrows? I also had the bow set at 71 lbs. Well I am not as tough as I thought and after 10 shots I was shot. I backed the limb bolts out 2 turns each which should give me 6-8 lbs reduction. It seems that the shock got even worse (or I might be paying more attention to it) Any thoughts would be appreciated. PS also went to a Whisker biscuit rest and it makes fast work of the vanes. After 3-4 shots the cock (white) is all wavy, but it is the only one on all 10 arrows, also it is starting to peel the vanes from the shaft.
09-06-2002, 04:56 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Violent Shock
Rod,
It is entirely possible that you went from a relatively average weight aluminum arrow to an extremely light ICS carbon. A change of 200 grains or more is definitely possible and a 200 grain difference or even slightly less is going to result in a definite change in feel because of the lack of mass weight to absorb the energy of the bow.
...and even though you lowered the draw weight when you backed the limb bolts out you also made the bow slightly less efficient because of not having the limbs bottomed. This can increase noise and vibration to some extent though it varies from bow to bow and setup to setup.
You also mentioned changing your string/cables. Is it possible that a different type of string material or even a different brand? "No-creep" or "low-creep" strings (Winner's Choice for example) can be much harder on a bow than some of the factory strings because of the lack of give.
On the other hand it is also possible that there is something else wrong with your bow now...ie, cams out of synch if it is a dual cam bow...or cam out of timing if it is a single cam bow, which may lead to the same type of situation. But, if the difference was only noticeable after you switched arrows then it would seem relatively simple to identify the arrows as the problem.
I am not a big fan of the Whisker Biscuit so I can't really help you out in that department. I admire its simplicity but feel that there is just too much contact between rest and arrow. I do know that some folks have trimmed the riser-side of the bristles to reduce fletching wear.
Hope this helps.
It is entirely possible that you went from a relatively average weight aluminum arrow to an extremely light ICS carbon. A change of 200 grains or more is definitely possible and a 200 grain difference or even slightly less is going to result in a definite change in feel because of the lack of mass weight to absorb the energy of the bow.
...and even though you lowered the draw weight when you backed the limb bolts out you also made the bow slightly less efficient because of not having the limbs bottomed. This can increase noise and vibration to some extent though it varies from bow to bow and setup to setup.
You also mentioned changing your string/cables. Is it possible that a different type of string material or even a different brand? "No-creep" or "low-creep" strings (Winner's Choice for example) can be much harder on a bow than some of the factory strings because of the lack of give.
On the other hand it is also possible that there is something else wrong with your bow now...ie, cams out of synch if it is a dual cam bow...or cam out of timing if it is a single cam bow, which may lead to the same type of situation. But, if the difference was only noticeable after you switched arrows then it would seem relatively simple to identify the arrows as the problem.
I am not a big fan of the Whisker Biscuit so I can't really help you out in that department. I admire its simplicity but feel that there is just too much contact between rest and arrow. I do know that some folks have trimmed the riser-side of the bristles to reduce fletching wear.
Hope this helps.
09-06-2002, 07:39 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cincinnati oh USA
Posts: 626
RE: Violent Shock
Hi, first off I think your shock is in relation to the reduction of the weight of your arrow. What you can do is take advantage of a good shock reducing stabilizer such as the Golden Key Traqualizer Stabilizer. If your vanes are starting to get that much damage you can try shooting feathers or try another rest. A good rest that will stop your vane damage is the Mirage by Golden Key. It is a super drop away rest and works very well. I was a slow convert to this style of rest but now I have gained a whole new respect for them. Another good thing about it is that Golden Key will back their products and will help you in any way they can.
Good Luck
Good Luck
09-06-2002, 01:21 PM
#4
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Violent Shock
One of our club's trads wanted to try carbon arrows out of his longbow, so I took a handful of my old ones (that I hated anyway) for him to experiment with last night. Should have seen the look on his face when he dumped the string with that first carbon!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> He was amazed at the shock and noise. After 7-8 shots, he didn't want any more of that stuff.
Frank is correct about the other things that could have affected your shock/noise level, but the difference in arrow weight is the main culprit.
Frank is correct about the other things that could have affected your shock/noise level, but the difference in arrow weight is the main culprit.
09-06-2002, 01:33 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central Illinois USA
Posts: 66
RE: Violent Shock
I would bet that all of the things you mentioned have combined to the "violent shock" factor.
Once last year I was heading out of town and had ordered new strings and cables for my solo cam. They were to arrive when I was out of town so I asked the shop to install them for me. When I returned and shot the bow I couldn't believe the noise and vibration I was experiencing. Turns out the cable was the wrong length so the shop had twisted up the cables to get the peak draw weight and in the process had preloaded the limbs. They then had to twist up the string to get the right drawlength. I was eventually able to fix it myself and have since found another shop or do my own work but my point is that this could be a large part of your problem. Check the cam synchronization (if a two cam) or cam timing (if a solo cam).
Good Luck!
Once last year I was heading out of town and had ordered new strings and cables for my solo cam. They were to arrive when I was out of town so I asked the shop to install them for me. When I returned and shot the bow I couldn't believe the noise and vibration I was experiencing. Turns out the cable was the wrong length so the shop had twisted up the cables to get the peak draw weight and in the process had preloaded the limbs. They then had to twist up the string to get the right drawlength. I was eventually able to fix it myself and have since found another shop or do my own work but my point is that this could be a large part of your problem. Check the cam synchronization (if a two cam) or cam timing (if a solo cam).
Good Luck!
09-09-2002, 04:35 AM
#6
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Orangeburg NY Orangeburg, NY USA
Posts: 310
RE: Violent Shock
My Darton is a twin cam, and it does have stamped in marks (lines)on the cam faces. With the bow at the rested position should these marks be exact to one another with relation to the limb edge. Or can you only check this with the bow at full draw. I am starting to question my accuracy of backing out the limb bolts. Did I go a full 2 on each or just 1 1/2 on one??? I did have a distraction during the process. The mention of the stabilizer is worth a shot, how bout the limb savers?? They look like hell but if they work, its not a fashion show, or not suppose to be anyway
09-09-2002, 05:01 AM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Violent Shock
Rod,
I can't help you with the Darton timing marks as I have no experience with their line of bows. Maybe Len or one of the other Darton guys can give it a whirl.
If you are unsure about the number of turns on the limb bolts then just start from scratch. Crank both all the way down and mark a line on the limb bolt face pointing down towards the riser with a permanent marker. You can then use that line as a reference point for backing out the limbs. Ofcourse, check tiller, etc.. when you have found your desired draw weight.
As for vibration reducing devices.....I am a big fan of them. Here are some items I recommend highly......the original Limbsavers for solid limb bows, Sims Stabilizer Enhancer 2000 with or without regular enhancer attached and the PSE NV system for the limb bolts.
I can't help you with the Darton timing marks as I have no experience with their line of bows. Maybe Len or one of the other Darton guys can give it a whirl.
If you are unsure about the number of turns on the limb bolts then just start from scratch. Crank both all the way down and mark a line on the limb bolt face pointing down towards the riser with a permanent marker. You can then use that line as a reference point for backing out the limbs. Ofcourse, check tiller, etc.. when you have found your desired draw weight.
As for vibration reducing devices.....I am a big fan of them. Here are some items I recommend highly......the original Limbsavers for solid limb bows, Sims Stabilizer Enhancer 2000 with or without regular enhancer attached and the PSE NV system for the limb bolts.
09-09-2002, 05:38 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Orangeburg NY Orangeburg, NY USA
Posts: 310
RE: Violent Shock
BowHunter
Thanks for the info, I have not had much experience in the tuning dept. Take it to a shop and get it done for the most part. Could you elaborate on the "Check tiller etc" portion of your post. I would like to try to tackle this myself and learn a thing or 2 before running back and dumping another $50 or so. I just spent $150 getting new string, cables, cat whiskers, peep & a tune up. I will look for the vib goods (will stay away from the new bolts for now, next season when it goes back to the shop to get ready to hand down to my son)
Thanks for the info, I have not had much experience in the tuning dept. Take it to a shop and get it done for the most part. Could you elaborate on the "Check tiller etc" portion of your post. I would like to try to tackle this myself and learn a thing or 2 before running back and dumping another $50 or so. I just spent $150 getting new string, cables, cat whiskers, peep & a tune up. I will look for the vib goods (will stay away from the new bolts for now, next season when it goes back to the shop to get ready to hand down to my son)