silentassassin

It might not prevent it but it might make the difference in how severe it is. We always talk about a deer's reaction being quicker than and arrow but if for example a deer's reaction time is .17 seconds and the difference between a fast arrow getting there and slow arrow getting there .10 seconds then that's a huge difference when looked at from that perspective.
Actually, my ex got a pass through on the first doe she killed a few years back shooting a 320 gr. arrow at 208 fps. Figure up them whoppin momentum numbers
I realize all these penetration discussions are just opinion but I sometimes wonder if you do. Most of the industry references KE as opposed to Momentum as being the optimum number for judging penetration. You don't hear people referring (at least I don't) to a certain amount of momentum to hunt African game or get pass through on whitetail or on elk etc. However, most all of the manufacturers guides, and experts do reference KE. The charts even say my little ol light arrows are carrying enough KE to take most African game. Silly as I am I tend to believe them. I wouldn't change anything about my setup to hunt anything on the North American continent nor would I to hunt Africa with the possible exceptions of elephant, rhino, and hippo. I honestly believe my setup would be sufficient for cape buffalo and I wouldn't be hesitant to hunt them with it.

Sorry to disappoint you but I mean blew through. As she shot it the cameraman was behind her and the elk was on a slightly uphill grade and you can see the arrow disappear behind the shoulder and then you can see the arrow again a few yards on the other side of the animal as it takes it's path to the ground. So yes I mean BLEW through a big bull elk. I have to admit that I was suprised myself.

Arthur P

No kiddin'? Well, I'm entitled to my opinion and have just as much right to express it as you do. Especially since MY opinion is right.

And why is that? First and foremost, the industry's purpose is to sell bows. Therefore, they talk about things that make it easy to sell bows, regardless of whether or not it's technically correct. Speed is selling so that's what they're pitching. The engineers will give them the numbers the marketing staffers want... if they want to keep drawing a paycheck. Fortunately for them, KE goes hand in hand with speed. They can ring up big numbers in speed and KE to impress the uninformed, which turns out to be 99.9% of their customers. People can grasp 70 foot pounds. They can tell the difference between 70 foot pounds and 60 foot pounds. That's easy to understand. Compare .57501 pound/seconds to .46003 pound/seconds and you might as well be talking some obscure Chinese dialect.

But bows with relatively low KE numbers and heavy arrows can equal the penetration of a bow with high KE and light arrows. Knowing that, I can't see how even the dumbest clod doesn't understand that KE is the wrong thing to be concerned about.

But lets go ahead and talk KE if you want to. I can load a 350 grain arrow on a bow and generate, say, 70 foot pounds. Put a 600 grain arrow on the same bow and generate 72-73 foot pounds. That heavier arrow will start out slower, certainly, but it will retain a much greater proportion of it's speed and energy downrange than the light one will. The light one uses up a whole lot of it's energy just trying to cut it's way through air. It can't even penetrate AIR as well as the heavy arrow, much less flesh and bone.

Next, consider how much sooner an arrow at 300 fps will strike the target at 20 yards vs one doing a mere 240. Answer is roughly 5/100ths of a second. Trajectory over 30 yards, the 300 fps arrow will fly roughly 1" flatter. Better retained energy downrange for negligible cost in flight time and trajectory. Plus a quieter shot. Plus less wear and tear on the bow. (But that goes against the industry's needs again... Can't have people shooting the same bow for 20 years! How in the world would they stay in business!? Gotta talk them into shooting light arrows and wearing those bows out quick!)

But you do hear people referring to legal minimum arrow weights to hunt dangerous game in Africa. Wonder why that is.

500 fps

Just to throw this out there, (I don't have a dog in the fight): Norb Mullaney wrote an article on the debate of KE vs. momentum and concluded KE was the most useful, and significant determination in an arrows penetration potential. He's far from the dumbest clod.

Matt / PA

Just for giggles we could also throw broadhead design into the equation and it's effects on penetration with regards to KE/momentum and arrow weight .........It's not all about the arrow itself or how fast it's going............naaaaaaaaa some other time.

In a less technical sense........I think we can all agree that it would suck to get shot by any of them.

Cougar Mag

You got that right.

First.....if archer X can put the fastest arrow in the kill zone, then thats great! If archer Y can put a slower arrow into the kill zone thats great too!

Back in the late 70's and early 80's the top compound bows shot around 185-200 fps and the most popular arrow was a 2117 or 2216. Shooting fingers at 60 lbs. with a 50% letoff, using 2216's, and the ole Rocky Mountain 130 grain heads, I blew through plenty of big whitetails.

I'd like to see some accurate and honest reports on kill-to-wound ratios from 25 years ago vs today.

BOWFANATIC

I'd definately put my money on a higher kill to wound ratio then.

Arthur P

True, 500fps, and I've got the greatest respect for the man. However, I specifically had his article in mind when I said, "The engineers will give them the numbers the marketing staffers want... if they want to keep drawing a paycheck." Do keep in mind where his paychecks come from. From the industry, or from magazines who won't allow him to write a fully honest bow report. Can't be ticking off the advertisers, ya know.

Is that cynicism or just a realistic way of looking at it? Probably both.

silentassassin

Yea it's all a big conspiracy theory[:-]

Arthur P

It's not conspiracy, it's the way things are run when they're under control of the freakin' bean counters, lawyers and market analysts. They know they're dealing to a hedonistic society that's more than willing to spend a lot of money and is willing to believe dang near anything they're told, without question. P.T. Barnum marketing at it's finest.

500 fps

I can just about shoot a spit ball through the little deer we have down here, so it's never been an issue I've had to pay much attention to. I can just shoot what I like and I'll be fine.
If I ever get the opportunity to hunt bigger bodied animals it is something I will look into further and try to make an informed descision, but your insight and experience is appreciated.