walks with a gimp

I had a good weather day yesterday (46 degrees) and shot my new Allegiance some out to 60 yards The bow simply puts the arrow where the sight pin is at, at the moment of release. My shooting is not world class but I can tell, at the shot, if the arrow is going to hit what I aimed at[&:] I guess I'll say that I can call my shots before they get there I shot 2, 5 arrow groups at 60 yards and they were as good as I've ever done with any bow. Arrow flight was great and the speed of the Easton FatBoy 340's are 287 fps at 60/29. I like the bow,, very much, probably the best of all the bows I've ever owned for speed, quiet shot and accuracy.
The Equalizer cam system is everything a conventional dual, single or hybrid system is trying to be,, minimal tuning and maintence, fast, quiet and accurate. In the first year of production, it's turning out to be everything that BowTech said it is and I'm sure the design team at BowTech isn't done with the system yet. I'd bet in the next few years that we'll see improvements and additions to the system and other manufactures following BowTech's lead

pdq 5oh

ewolf, sorry to be so slow responding. I can understand your apprenhension re: a new cam design. The E cam bows do shoot very well. And are, IMO, the next step in cam design. People are needlessly worrying over a possible non-issue with respect to cam lean. Many just can't get past the fact that a bow can be built without split yokes. Shoot the new BowTechs and decide for yourself.

silent, well said.

pinwheel:
Same good parts as always.

walks with a gimp

Sure we can see and measure the amount of cam lean on any bow or system at brace and full draw but what happens when you shoot the bow?? Don't you think that the cams straighten up while propelling the arrow forward. Only slow motion cameras can capture this movement and I'd bet the most severe lean is at full draw and at brace,, where we can see and worry about it Me I'm not worried about it

Pinwheel 12

SA-

I think you just showed some of your own colors here---if you don't care for me, that's fine and your right to feel that way. Now that I know how you feel, I will be sure to include you on my ignore list as well along with the other righteous few. Thanks for the clarity in your post.[8D]

Honestly, I am not forcing anyone here to do anything, or trying to sway anyone either--- I work for Merlin, but sell other bow lines in my Pro shop also, and it's all about the sport anyway. Many people have bought the Equalizer and they seem very happy with them, and that is why I am intrigued to learn all about it and how it workls, along with any quirks it may or may not have. Seems like YOU have a problem with those who DO have technical backgrounds as this is not the first time you've attacked me on this board. I dunno why it is, but everytime I come on this board and ask a true technical question, whether it be about a Bowtech, Mathews, or whatever, there are those who fly right up in my face who honestly have no need to get their tail feathers ruffled to begin with! Chill out, I'm not talking about your wife for cripes sakes, and not bashing anyones' equipment either! Didn't I say that it was a "good solid bow"? Sheesh.

By comparing true and factual technical data, we all are able to get further ahead as it benefits everyone to do so. The name on the side is irrelevant in this regard-- Merlin, Mathews, Bowtech, Hoyt, whatever, it has to do with the design, materials, components, quality of craftsmanship, and shootability. Everyones' input is important too, don't put words in my mouth for your benefit. If we can discuss these technical issues as MEN, (as some of us here are doing) then it just helps the entire industry as a whole. There have been many systems publicized (and some brought to the top) over the years simply due to hype alone, and I'm not in any way saying the Equalizer is one of those systems but I do feel that because it is new that much like the original CPS Hybrid, solocam, and twin before it it warrants some thorough testing. I do NOT feel I am the only tech out here, no, that is why I asked for others' input on the subject. I'm a regular guy, just like you---only difference is that my business revolves around the sport, it is not just a "hobby".

Take everything as you will. Honestly I'm not here to stroke anyone, I'm here to find out what makes this system tick, and get quality input from those who may have some.

Frank--

I'll refrain from saying anything further (for obvious reasons) until I have a full technical review completed.

silentassassin

I understand how you feel. The truth is sometimes a tough pill to swallow. But let me ask you this. How many times have you seen Pat jump in and downgrade someone elses equipment? How many times have you seen Pat jump in on a Merlin thread and start extoling the virtues of Bowtech? I wasn't trying to be nasty about my thread. I was just pointing out my opinion. You have been around long enough to know that if I were trying to me rude or just genuinely blast you that I would have done so. In all honesty, I just wonder if you see how you represent your company by acting that way. I can be an a$$ and I am well aware of the fact. But I am not here representing an organization. I just wanted you to be aware. Also, it's not that I don't care for you personally it's that I don't care for your attitude. I am sure you deserve a lot of respect as a tech but the thing is you try to demand respect and it just doesn't work that way, it's earned.

PS You putting me on ignore says something about your colors, don't you think?

Pinwheel 12

SA-

Nah, I don't put people on my ignore list but I tell them that---I like to see who's sneaking up on me.[8D]

I don't feel I "extoll the virtues" of just Merlin, tho I may promote them as my #1 line and this could be being mis-read by the way I write--- I honestly hold no quarrel with any manufactuer at this time---Dartons' CPS has those same Asymetrical virtues I "extoll", as does other companies who are also licensing the CPS technology. Merlin IS the only one who (to date) has Pro-Fusion technology and limbskins, tho after speaking with top techs from Gordon Composites, Mathews, PSE, and the Koreans at the ATA show when they all stopped by the Merlin booth to ask about the technology and take pics, I'm sure that will not be the case next year. Sure there are alot of good bows out there, and no-one including myself is denying that fact. Bowtech is certainly one of them. (did I say that? haha!) But as stated, the only way for us to get through the hype smokescreens is by discussing true and factual tech data, and if this irritates some, ( and sometimes it does me also) oh well.

Not trying to be a dink, just trying to learn all I can about each system so I can be a better tech to my customers. I do feel the original CPS design to be very hard to beat, so one has to prove it to me technically that a system is better.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

silentassassin

Kevin,

I do understand your wanting to add to the conversation with your technical expertise and I applaud your effort. I was just pointing out that you catch more flies with honey. I realize that sounds ironic coming from me because have a tendancy to not be very subtle. But again I don't have a vested interest in an archery manufacturer and nobody really cares what I have to say anyway[8D]

BowTech_Shooter

Kevin,

With all due respect, do you really think any of the people you're seeking this technical data from visits this forum? I don't believe so. The folks that visit here are BowTech employees, dealers, Team and Advisory Staff members and happy (some have been unhappy at times) BowTech bow owners, all of which you denied to give you any kind of technical data on the Equalizer Cam System.

I can tell you as well there were some other engineers/designers (George Ryals and Mark Wheeler just to name a couple) in our booth shooting the new system and they were very impressed, their words, not mine. Does this mean other manufacturers will use this system next year, I hope so but who knows what we'll see next year.

I'd say let's just wait until we see a test from the archery industry techs as I'm assuming there will be some in the future. BTW, Bill Krenz did do a short review in the ATA Show edition of Inside Archery magazine.

gibblet

silent assassin:
there's this other merlin head on AT named merlinapexdylan. he was giveing this exact same attitude to the guy designing the moon bow and he didn't even really know any technical terms, he just kept saying one of the merlin designer's name over and over - i think it was 'chris at merlin'. i let him know i had been interested in merlins, but his attitude, and knowing he shot one, ruined it for me. i think there must be some kind of chemical in the grips of the merlin bows that make you an arse. i'd like to shoot one sometime, but i don't want to act like that. maybe its a british thing.

Pinwheel 12

SA and Pat-

Points noted on both fronts, and you are both correct to an extent, tho Pat you must know and see yourself how heavily biased this forum has become, just to be fair---unfortunately when I see the term "Technical" on the heading of this forum, I tend to sometimes think in terms as I used to-- we used to be able to discuss equipment objectively with no issues as we all knew each other as techs and interested parties, were all friends in the sport, and that was that.. I find it incredibly sad that there are no places anymore where we can all go to discuss the technical side of products freely and objectively without all of the BS of name brand loyalty.(yes, including Merlin!) Used to be able to, I dunno if anyone remembers the early days of the Archery Network, Archer's Retreat, or the Archery Info Network,(Pat and Frank do--they were both there as I recall and those boards is where they really asked questions-- we used to call Frank the "info squirrel" I remember, and Pat was pretty quiet back then but did ask alot of questions. George Ryals was barely 20 I think--- Aaah the memories, LOL--- but there were many many industry techs there and great amounts of hard-earned knowledge was freely shared,and equipment of all sorts freely debated with little turmoil. It was great! Even when Archerytalk first started we had many more Pros and industry techs contributing solid info. Unfortunately is seems those days are now gone along with most of the techs and Pros who used to post, to be replaced by mostly speculation and assumption.... I speak with some very regularly, and to a man they are just sick of being attacked whenever they themselves ask a question or respond technically.(ask GRIV about that Pat) Everyone thinks that because we are Pros or work within the industry, that we have no right to learn anymore or comment on other products and I for one don't believe that is right---as stated, when we do ask or comment, and can do so without having to defend ourselves and our questions/viewpoints at every turn, we can thus all bring the industry forward to build better products. It's not about whose name is on the side of a bow--it's about whose cams, whose riser, whose limbs, whose strings, etc complete the entire package. Me, I'm always looking for the "perfect bow", and altho some are indeed great and some good, and yes, some poor, I've yet to see one that is "Perfect". So I keep looking and learning daily, asking the questions I feel are necessary, and maybe someday I can find one or build one myself.

I will take this a step further for you Pat and say that there is alot of interest in this system-- not only by end users but by others inside the industry as well. Everyone wants to know the details on how this system ticks, it's quirks and it's technical attributes--just so happened I was the one that asked for tech comparasons and gave examples for debate first. ( and of course immediately got flamed for it, LOL) But make no mistake these questions will be asked, whether by myself or by others, and if this system comes out smelling like a rose I'll be the first to step forward and shake John's and Kevin's hands and give them a high five, then ask to license it! [8D]. But as I said I don't believe hype, I believe technical data and my own eyes, along with people I've come to know and trust over the years. I will continue with my testing, and I look forward to others' conclusions and especially Norb Mullaneys' Technical review if he is able to test it. Because----It's all in the data my friends...... Peace, and Good shooting!