CG

I know his KE was marginal but he insisted on shooting them. All I can say is if the head had held together I think he would have blown through that elk considering it cut the rib and penetrated 8" with essentially a blunt tip.

"What we do in this life echos an eternity"

5 shot

CG, thank you for the information. As to what happend I don't have a clue, but that is one of the main reasons I don't recomend anyone use mechanical heads on animals larger than deer. The KE of the arrow was a factor for sure, but the heads should not have buckled under the pressure. Now one thing to keep in mind is that we really don't know when the head broke, before or after the elk fell on it? I think we all tend to asume that it happend prior to the elk falling, thus the poor penetration, but with a low KE level and an untuned bow could also be the problem. I don't know if your friends bow was tuned or not, and I know the tip can curl up on the snypers if you hit somting really hard that won't give any, like a rock( I had that happen after penetrating fully through a deer). Again I still really like the snypers but not for elk. They are not perfect, but better than most mechanicals. The Steel heads ferule is stronger, but the snypers blades are stronger. I would also suggest you send the head to Bruce Barrie and Barrie archery. I know he will want to take a look at the head, and will be intrested in your story.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

CG

I'm about 99% positive it had to have happened on entry, not when he fell. The tip and broken ferrule were between the hide and the ribs, not in the wound, plus the broken arrow was plugging the hole. I was directly behind him when he shot and his arrow flew perfectly. I truly hope it was a flaw and like you said I think that this BH is great for deer sized game but no bigger. I'm pretty sure my buddy is convinced also.....he was sweating bullets when he saw the penetration on his arrow.

"What we do in this life echos an eternity"

Todd1700

Sorry man but nocking the broadhead because it didn't blow through a 600 lb elk undamaged from a bow generating KE in the mid 50's is being a bit hard on it. That would be like me poor mouthing my 4x4 because it won't out run a Corvette. It wasn't designed for that purpose. I would never shoot a animal the size of a elk with a mechanical head. Steelheads and demons are both fine mechs as well and do have a very tough center ferrule. However, I don't think they would have penetrated a inch deeper from that rig on an elk that size.
And just because the ferrule would have survived better doesn't mean the blades would have stayed intact on elk sized game.

BOWFANATIC

I wouldn't even go as far to say mechs shouldn't be used on elk size game. I'd be willing to bet there are hunters who have used the snypers on elk with outstanding results. I'd lean more towards this being an isolated incident where low ke and facts that weren't disclosed (poor shot placement , poor arrow flight) being the major factor in this case.

Buckfevr

CG,

Just a little more if you wouldn't mind. The tip of the ferrule holding the tip broke, just below the set screw? Was that assembly intact or did it fall apart? Was the break in the ferrule clean i.e. did it crack or did the ferrule bend?

That info would be very helpful.
Thanks

Stealth_Force

1st, I think that while the KE wasn't as high as SOME would suggest using, he had enough (I KNOW I am in the minority here....but there are LOTS of guys useing less to do more) to go a LOT more than 8" into an elk. The braking is why it didn't go deeper.
I am SURE the steelheads would have worked better.
I am currently testing different materials for use in broadhead tests. (Coconuts were fun...bent the hell out of the Muzzy Blades...slightly bent Shockwave blades...with some damage to the ferrule) When I finish my tests, I will post results. Next up....compression molded toilet seat covers to simulate shoulder blades!

PABowhntr

To clarify my earlier statement further and to add some after the last few comments...I do agree that low to mid 50's in KE is definitely below what I would recommend for elk-sized game.

However, if a person's bow is generating 65 ft. lbs or more of KE then I see no problem whatsoever with shooting the Snypers or the Steelheads and expecting to get full penetration.....provided the shot placement is there.

But, and here is the good part, should the shot be slightly off "perfect placement" I would definitely say that a trocar style tip, such as the Steelhead, or Muzzy for that matter, has a better chance of staying intact and causing damage than a cut on impact tip such as the one found on the Snyper and any of the typical cut-on-impact style broadheads. I would much rather have a head fully penetrate with one or two blades shearing off than have a head not penetrate at all and have the blades remain intact. An entrance and an exit wound is better for tracking than just an entrance wound...especially if the hit is higher up on the animal.

Just my take on this.


















Edited by - PABowhntr on 09/04/2002 06:09:13

silentassassin

For all the reading comprehension challenged:

He did not bash the product! He simply told of an experience that he witnessed. For all of the KE comments, I guess it is a good thing that he didn't have 70 lbs of KE because the head would have probably disentegrated. Seriously, how could not having enough KE make a head bend. Really! I can hear it now

"Billy Bob you gonna hav to crank your bow up, you keep bending these broadheads" "Yes, siree you gonna hav to start shutin harder for you rurin that there whole pack"

PS Why is it that everyone who has a bad experience with mechanicals has to have a poorly tuned bow??????

Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."

JeffB

SA,

I think you are taking this a wee bit out of context.

What some of us are implying is that the poor penetration might have been related to low amounts of KE, and the head disintegration related to something else (either a design flaw, or a fluke) despite the aforementioned poor penetration, not because of it.

JeffB