Bowtech -or- Matthews?
#12
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
Also you say that sometimes you can shoot off knocks from 30yds at 350fps but the next day it's not the same story anymore. Wouldn't this be a form or conditions consistency problem and not a bow consistency problem? If you can make a bow perform like that one day, it should still perform like that the next day...
#13
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
dohcrxl, if you are buying your first bow or are relatively new to bowhunting I am gonna state flat out that buying a Bowtech Black Knight or Matthews Black Max is just wrong! Figure in the brace height and extra recoil you are going to get from these 2 speed bows......makes them 2 tough to handle bows. Speed ain't gonna kill, accuracy will.
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
Between the two you mentiioned, I would choose the Bowtech Black Knight 2. If you want maximum speed, then it is the bow that has it.
That said, none of those responding (including me) have any idea of your level of experience with a bow. The low brace speed bows are less forgiving of form breaks, or any "nervousness" in your shooting, yet with their aggressive force draw curves, no valley, and low brace, they tend to magnify anything less than perfect form. Can they be shot accurately? Absoutely, but there is also much more potential for disappointing days, frustration, and lack of confidence. If you are a rock solid shooter, then you don't have to worry about that.
All that said, one of the best shooters I've owned was a 2001 Bowtech Pro 38 Dual Cam. Fast? Yes, but very stable too with nearly 7" brace height (with the grip removed). I currently have a Patriot Dually that is also very fast, and has a 7 5/8 brace height. They also made the Pro 40 Dually, which was considered to be even more forgiving, and still quite fast. I've owned a couple of Mathews bows, and I'd have to say that I would much rather have an LX if I wanted a fast Mathews than the BM 2. The new Switchback looks like a much more shooter friendly bow than the Max also. JMHO, FWIW. The Darton Maverick Extreme and the Hoyt Supertec are two other nice speed bows.
That said, none of those responding (including me) have any idea of your level of experience with a bow. The low brace speed bows are less forgiving of form breaks, or any "nervousness" in your shooting, yet with their aggressive force draw curves, no valley, and low brace, they tend to magnify anything less than perfect form. Can they be shot accurately? Absoutely, but there is also much more potential for disappointing days, frustration, and lack of confidence. If you are a rock solid shooter, then you don't have to worry about that.
All that said, one of the best shooters I've owned was a 2001 Bowtech Pro 38 Dual Cam. Fast? Yes, but very stable too with nearly 7" brace height (with the grip removed). I currently have a Patriot Dually that is also very fast, and has a 7 5/8 brace height. They also made the Pro 40 Dually, which was considered to be even more forgiving, and still quite fast. I've owned a couple of Mathews bows, and I'd have to say that I would much rather have an LX if I wanted a fast Mathews than the BM 2. The new Switchback looks like a much more shooter friendly bow than the Max also. JMHO, FWIW. The Darton Maverick Extreme and the Hoyt Supertec are two other nice speed bows.
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
First, speed isn't everything!
Outside of 3-D shooters, professional archers and the most successful hunters in the world pay little attention to speed. Why should non-professionals?
#16
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
Does this necessarily mean that the two bows I originally introduced as standing options are unstable, not forgiving, and unshootable to such a high degree?
The suggestions of the Mathews Switchback or Outback and/or Bowtech's new Allegiance or Patriot single cam would be better options overall. All of them offer slightly more forgiving design characteristics (brace height, riser geometry, draw cycle) without sacrificing much to the other two you mentioned in terms of speed.
If speed turns out not to be as important to you as you may have originally thought then start looking at the Freedom cam bows from Bowtech. The Liberty and Justice are in the mid-range in terms of speed and yet offer a very smooth draw cycle and decent brace heights which make them a pure pleasure to shoot. I would even suggest the Pro 40 Freedom if a slightly longer axle to axle length doesn't bother you.
Hope this helps.
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Greenville S.C. USA
Posts: 212
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
MQ1shooter is exactly on, in what I was trying to say. The BK2 and BM require near perfect form every time to shoot well consistently, and I don't have perfect form. I can also develope the fun habit of drive by punching when shooting these fast bows sometimes. The shot is such an explosive release of energy that I beging to anticipate the shot, and when the pin swings by my spot.....I punch the trigger.
This doesn't happen all the time, or even much of the time, but it happens enough that I don't want to risk it if I'm going to have a deer in front of me.
And yes....these are all MY flaws...not the bows, but the short brace height, reflexed riser greatly exaggerates it.
I will say this though, it is not as much of a problem now that the BK2 is on the longer Pro riser platform as opposed to the highly reflexed riser of the 2000-2002 models.
It is just far more enjoyable to me for eveyday shooting to pick up my Liberty, feel that silky smooth rollover to full draw, settle in to that 80% let-off and rock solid back wall, and squeeze off a shot that is so recoil free, it makes me wonder if the bow even shot at all. I"m getting a whisper quiet 290 fps out of it which is plenty for any application.
Though I've not shot it yet, I think the Mathews Switchback would be in the same category; an excellent bow with forgiving, recoil free shooting.
One thing to think about is Bowtech's new Equalizer cam system. I haven't shot it enough to give a completley informed opinion, but my initial impressions are ....WOW!
It has a little stiffer draw on the front end, but a very smooth transition to full draw with incredible speed given the low level of recoil and noise that it produces.
The Defender is the model I got to try out with the Equalizer cam and it is shooting over 300 fps at a 28" draw IBO. Very few bows that I know of will do this and still give you the forgiving brace height, low recoil and low noise that the Defender provides. They have 2 other models that are even faster in the Old Glory and Allegiance that will still offer the same forgiving shooting characteristics but with the little extra kick that you might be looking for.
This doesn't happen all the time, or even much of the time, but it happens enough that I don't want to risk it if I'm going to have a deer in front of me.
And yes....these are all MY flaws...not the bows, but the short brace height, reflexed riser greatly exaggerates it.
I will say this though, it is not as much of a problem now that the BK2 is on the longer Pro riser platform as opposed to the highly reflexed riser of the 2000-2002 models.
It is just far more enjoyable to me for eveyday shooting to pick up my Liberty, feel that silky smooth rollover to full draw, settle in to that 80% let-off and rock solid back wall, and squeeze off a shot that is so recoil free, it makes me wonder if the bow even shot at all. I"m getting a whisper quiet 290 fps out of it which is plenty for any application.
Though I've not shot it yet, I think the Mathews Switchback would be in the same category; an excellent bow with forgiving, recoil free shooting.
One thing to think about is Bowtech's new Equalizer cam system. I haven't shot it enough to give a completley informed opinion, but my initial impressions are ....WOW!
It has a little stiffer draw on the front end, but a very smooth transition to full draw with incredible speed given the low level of recoil and noise that it produces.
The Defender is the model I got to try out with the Equalizer cam and it is shooting over 300 fps at a 28" draw IBO. Very few bows that I know of will do this and still give you the forgiving brace height, low recoil and low noise that the Defender provides. They have 2 other models that are even faster in the Old Glory and Allegiance that will still offer the same forgiving shooting characteristics but with the little extra kick that you might be looking for.
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 276
RE: Bowtech -or- Matthews?
ORIGINAL: Rangeball
What do you want a bow to do and what is your intended purpose for having it?
What do you want a bow to do and what is your intended purpose for having it?
So with the BM2 and BK2 having short brace heights, they are out of the question in fitting the above description of my expectations correct? All these suggested bows and their pros and cons are making my head spin. Just once more, could you guys recategorize/ressugest only the bows that fit my revised expectations? Thanks everyone.