djdkman

Heres a test question. What has better penatration, carbon or alum? I have always thought that carbon gives you better speed and flatter trajectory but in the end you lose some penatration. The arrow just doesnt retain the kinectic energy like a heavier mass alum arrow would. And to be honest, I have personaly noticed the difference after I switched to carbon. I got better trajectory, but have had issues with blow throughs on deer and have considered going back to my old standby...2317"s with 100 grain brdhead.( I shoot a 38" arrow...596grns finished with this setup). Those telephone poles gapped my pins aliitle more but blew though a deer like a knife through butter.... Here is when I got confuzed. Just read Bowhunting Q&A in the recent NAHC mag, in there a dude is asking about using carbon for bear. I'm sitting on the throne thinking that I would want to use alum, and a cut on impact 125 grain broadhead to get the most penatration on those thick buggers. Well the "expert" agrees with my philosiphy up to the arrow. He recommends USING a carbon arrow for MORE penatration. What gives? I figure there is alot of experience within these walls of this site, so I ask you guys to give me the truth. Whats the answer? P.S. I know I cant spell.

BGfisher

All things being equal you'll get better penetration using carbon. But all things aren't always equal. The general reason to use carbons is to gain more speed--lighter arrow. BUT, these days there are carbon arrows that weigh as much or more than comparable aluminum. To this end carbon arrows being stiffer, they recover from any kind of paradox quicker and get more of that mass right behind the broadhead, thus carrying more momentum into the hit. In choosing such arrows you'll gain the added momentum and still have an arrow that is less likely to bend or break upon impact with bone, or any obstruction when practicing. And th slightly smaller diameter means a bit less friction also.

Does this help any?

jmac_or

It depends.....Speed and toughness go to the carbons. A similar weighted carbon will always be tougher than the similar weight alum. To get similar toughness from the alum, you go with the heavy alum, defeating the advantage of the speed. Then there is this consistancy thing. Many, including many on this site, have had MUCH better results regarding consistant spine from alum. You can get good consistancy from high quality carbons, or alum/carb/comp (ACC), but they are heavier and expensive.

It also depends on your intended use. If on the 3D course, where many arrows slam the same spot and yardage is critical, go with good quality carbons or ACC. If shooting indoor spots, speed or arrows smacking is no issue, go with with good aluminums. You can get a bigger diameter shaft to cut a few more lines, for a decent price. For hunting, well, that debate will rage forever. Light, heavy, fast, slow, carbon, alum, expand, cut to tip, trocar style. That becomes much a matter of personal preference.

Bottom line is play around and suit them to your intended game. One perk is alum, even the best ones made, are about half the cost of the high end carbons, so it is easier to play with different combos.

JMAC

Arthur P

Read Dr. Ashby's arrow lethality study here and make up your own mind.

If I was after bear or anything else bigger than a deer, I'd use the 2317. OR a carbon arrow that has been weighted to equal the heft of the 2317. In fact, I'd put my money on the weighted carbon to penetrate slightly better than the aluminum due to the smaller shaft diameter and less friction. Or, I'd use one of the carbon/glass composite arrows, my favorite of which is the CX Terminator Select. Good weight without having to add extra weights, and a small diameter.

When it comes to shooting a living creature with an arrow, I do not want to gamble that I can get enough penetration to make for a quick kill. I KNOW heftier arrows will do the job. Flat trajectory is nice on the 3D range, but I shoot lots of shots on the 3D range I'd never consider ethical in a real hunting situation. If the critter is far enough that I have to worry about trajectory, it's too far away to shoot with a bow, plain and simple.

djdkman

Thanks guys..maybe my penatration problem is the fact I use Wasp SST 100 grain and the inital impact to open uses up some of the energy. Something for me to consider..just don't want to go back to my old problem of broadhead plane that I fixed by going to expandables in the first place.

bigbulls

If you keep everything equal when testing penetration such as weight, broadhead, fletching type, shaft length, bow being used, draw weight, etc the carbon arrow will always out penetrate the aluminum arrow.

Carbon resists flexing better and recovers from flexing faster thus concentrating the arrows energy in more of a straight line at impact, it also stabilizes from flexing after the shot faster than aluminum, is most always skinnier causing less air friction to retain down range speed and also causes less friction inside the animal.

Get yourself some of the excelent fixed blade brosdheads that are ont he market today, Slick tricks are now my favorite broadhead and about the absolute toughest on the market today. Some other great heads would be the G5 montec, NAP nitron, Steel force, Magnus stingers, Wasp bullets, American Sonic.

Arthur P

Planing is usually due to using cheap, poorly made broadheads, or the wrong spine arrow, or crooked arrows (and not all carbons are straight, nor do they remain straight - contrary to that 'carbons are either straight or broken' urban legend), or insufficient fletching for the size broadhead being shot, or broadheads that aren't mounted straight and concentric with the arrow, or shooting a bow that isn't properly tuned, or shakey shooting form, or a combination of any or all those points.

To top it off, the faster the arrow is flying, the more any of those problems you might have are magnified.

BGfisher

Well said Art.

djd, when you went to expandable heads you didn't get rid of the planing problem. You just covered it up. Gaining the knowledge and understanding it, you should be able to get a good fixed blade head to fly well. It all comes down to having the properly matched equipment (mostly arrow spine for the bow) and knwoing how to tune your equipment to get it all right. This often takes time and patience, especially if you are a novice, but where do you think some of us got our knowledge? It just depends on how interested you are in archery.

djdkman

Well cant say I didnt learn somthing. One thing i would like to piont out is the broadhead plane problem was very specific. In other words, I did try a few things...changed from a thicker wall to a stiffer spine..same problem, changed from 3" to 4" vanes..same rpoblem, tried fletching..same problem. I even went and found true center of my arrows and used a roller to check for staigtness..same problem. My bow was checked out a few times by the local shop and they found nothing wrong. I could shoot filed pionts and they grouped great..in fact i robin hooded three and used to have to carry a 35mm cansitor of nocks during practice because I would drive nocks off. But when it came to fixed blade practice...the arrows would group into the size of a quater or less and they were ALWAYS 3 inches high and left of the bullseye. Oh yeah, almost forgot...I even tried those disks that fit over the blades that was supposed to remove the planing effect from the blades...same thing happened and yes the blades were directly in line with the vanes. I had a buddy make up three arrows of left hand heliciol...they just flew like crap. I have been down the road of trying fixed blades, I have o boxed of all kinds of brands, they all did the same thing. I would LOVE to shoot a fixed blade, the worst I shot were Thunderheads. Maybe I try again. I know of one deer that I didnt have a problem with penatration on though. See pic, got this dude the weekend after gun season ended here in Delaware.

Arthur P

What you're describing is NOT planing. Planing is where the arrow starts out straight and then veers off course, usually at random. Your arrows are obviously shooting straight and consistent to the same point of impact. The point of impact is just different from field points to broadheads. All you gotta do is sight in the broadheads.

Some guys would say you need to raise your nockset and maybe tweak the rest to the right to get both points of impact together. I don't necessarily agree with that. A bow that's properly tuned with broadheads doesn't always group them together with field points. A bow that's properly tuned with field points doesn't always group them together with broadheads.