What makes a 3D bow great?
03-03-2002, 10:43 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Benton Pa. USA
Posts: 13
What makes a 3D bow great?
As opposed to just average I mean?
Heres a quote from JeffB's recent report on the Bowtech Patriot...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are a hunter first, but don’t like to look like an idiot on the 3D range, the PATRIOT is right up your alley, and I would not be afraid to compete with it on a semi-serious level if you need “one bow to do it all”.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
The question that springs to mind by reading these words is why only a semi serious level?
In other words, What would make the patriot a better 3D bow that it already seems, and what in your opinion would be the ideal 3D bow?
I hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
Oh by the way, if you havent yet read that bow report by JeffB, it is hands down the most informative report I have ever read. Period. I never had seen before the process of "dipping" the camo finish onto a bow explained in detail.
Heres a quote from JeffB's recent report on the Bowtech Patriot...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are a hunter first, but don’t like to look like an idiot on the 3D range, the PATRIOT is right up your alley, and I would not be afraid to compete with it on a semi-serious level if you need “one bow to do it all”.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
The question that springs to mind by reading these words is why only a semi serious level?
In other words, What would make the patriot a better 3D bow that it already seems, and what in your opinion would be the ideal 3D bow?
I hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
Oh by the way, if you havent yet read that bow report by JeffB, it is hands down the most informative report I have ever read. Period. I never had seen before the process of "dipping" the camo finish onto a bow explained in detail.
03-03-2002, 04:14 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: calgary alberta canada
Posts: 250
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
JDOYLE, thank's for the laugh, ahaha.
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
A great 3-D bow is dependent on the person shooting it. If Jeff ment forgiving, yet fast. That would make a great 3-D bow. But if the archer behind the bow can't put the bow to it's full potential then no bow becomes a great bow and they all stay average. Good shooting.
Dylan
>>>>--------o-->
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>A great 3-D bow is dependent on the person shooting it. If Jeff ment forgiving, yet fast. That would make a great 3-D bow. But if the archer behind the bow can't put the bow to it's full potential then no bow becomes a great bow and they all stay average. Good shooting.
Dylan
>>>>--------o-->
03-03-2002, 06:38 PM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WV USA
Posts: 214
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
I think have confidence in the bow your shooting is most important in a 3D bow Ive shot short fast bows and long slow bows low brace height and high barce height> but I think my mental confidence in the bow Im holding has helped me most on the 3D range and in the woods.
03-04-2002, 05:55 AM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
GSRFAN: I beleive [Quote]
"THE BOW DOESN'T MAKE THE PERSON GREAT - THE PERSON MAKES THE BOW GREAT"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I think this is a statement that is blown out of proportion in a certain way. I'll explain..
A very good archer knows his limitations and strengths. A very good archer will pick the best equipment he/she can find to diminish the limitations, and bolster the strengths.
While most of the best shooters out there will have an edge in form and concentration, I don't believe all of them could shoot to their potential with just ANY bow or piece of equipment.
Why?
Synergy..
This a point that the great Randy Ulmer and many others have made over the years that most folks don't ever pay attention to. You HAVE to synergized w/ your equipment and vice versa.
Everything about your equipment has to fit well, and feel very comfortable for you to shoot your best AS LONG AS, your form and concentration are there.
If the grip is not the most comfortable, or the bow feels unbalanced, bounces around too much for you, or the valley is not your tastes (these are examples, there are many other variables), then you are not going to shoot as well, becuase your concentration is not 100%, and your confidence is not 100%.
Think about this...What was one of the best shooting bows you ever had? Why did it shoot better than X other bows? I suspect are answers are not going to be "because it shot 10 FPS faster", or "because it had a pretty target finish", or something trivial. It's going to be something like "the bow did not recoil as badly","the bow did not have as much reflex", "the grip was not as torquey", or something along those lines...Comfort..feel..
Pro-Archers are no different. That is why many of them shoot different brands of equipment..sure there are "the perks of sponsorship" involved, but even then you will see most of those shooters change out grips, or shoot the riser, use different stabilizers and sights, etc..It's because those things make them shoot better with the equipment they are given to shoot. Were they NOT worried about sponsorship, you would see them shooting a wide variety of bow brands.
Could those shooters switch to "y" and shoot the same? I think some would shoot better, and some would shoot worse, and some might not see a difference because "Y" would be no more or less synergistic for them.
Archery is very much a mental game, but equipment that does not fit you synergistically will hinder you when the mental side lapses.
JeffB
GSRFAN: I beleive [Quote]
"THE BOW DOESN'T MAKE THE PERSON GREAT - THE PERSON MAKES THE BOW GREAT"
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I think this is a statement that is blown out of proportion in a certain way. I'll explain..
A very good archer knows his limitations and strengths. A very good archer will pick the best equipment he/she can find to diminish the limitations, and bolster the strengths.
While most of the best shooters out there will have an edge in form and concentration, I don't believe all of them could shoot to their potential with just ANY bow or piece of equipment.
Why?
Synergy..
This a point that the great Randy Ulmer and many others have made over the years that most folks don't ever pay attention to. You HAVE to synergized w/ your equipment and vice versa.
Everything about your equipment has to fit well, and feel very comfortable for you to shoot your best AS LONG AS, your form and concentration are there.
If the grip is not the most comfortable, or the bow feels unbalanced, bounces around too much for you, or the valley is not your tastes (these are examples, there are many other variables), then you are not going to shoot as well, becuase your concentration is not 100%, and your confidence is not 100%.
Think about this...What was one of the best shooting bows you ever had? Why did it shoot better than X other bows? I suspect are answers are not going to be "because it shot 10 FPS faster", or "because it had a pretty target finish", or something trivial. It's going to be something like "the bow did not recoil as badly","the bow did not have as much reflex", "the grip was not as torquey", or something along those lines...Comfort..feel..
Pro-Archers are no different. That is why many of them shoot different brands of equipment..sure there are "the perks of sponsorship" involved, but even then you will see most of those shooters change out grips, or shoot the riser, use different stabilizers and sights, etc..It's because those things make them shoot better with the equipment they are given to shoot. Were they NOT worried about sponsorship, you would see them shooting a wide variety of bow brands.
Could those shooters switch to "y" and shoot the same? I think some would shoot better, and some would shoot worse, and some might not see a difference because "Y" would be no more or less synergistic for them.
Archery is very much a mental game, but equipment that does not fit you synergistically will hinder you when the mental side lapses.
JeffB
03-04-2002, 06:10 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
As opposed to just average I mean?
Heres a quote from JeffB's recent report on the Bowtech Patriot...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are a hunter first, but don’t like to look like an idiot on the 3D range, the PATRIOT is right up your alley, and I would not be afraid to compete with it on a semi-serious level if you need “one bow to do it all”.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
The question that springs to mind by reading these words is why only a semi serious level?
In other words, What would make the patriot a better 3D bow that it already seems, and what in your opinion would be the ideal 3D bow?
I hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
Oh by the way, if you havent yet read that bow report by JeffB, it is hands down the most informative report I have ever read. Period. I never had seen before the process of "dipping" the camo finish onto a bow explained in detail.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Thanx for the praise!
Now to answer your question
My point is that while the PAT may not be the perfect tool for the job (3D shooting), for those who are still shooting on a local level and want to remain competitive, I don't feel they would be seriously handicapped as the bow has some of the great traits of a 3D bow.
Some folks, don't care how many points they score, and shoot bows that just are not consistent enough for the majority of archers to place high or win with competitively..namely super short treestand bows, rat-trap (as PW12 likes to call them) speedsters, or very slow bows set-up strictly to give them the best chance of downing game.
If you look at the majority of serious non pros,and PRO 3D shooters(barring some of the children, some women, and some very short draw archers) they are shooting moderate to long axle to axle lengths, moderate brace heights,and generally euipment that offers more stability. Simply due to the fact that from day to day, those bows will shoot more consistently for scores. Sure there are a few people here and there that can tear up the course fairly consistently with a 30" bow, but those people are rare exceptions, not the rule.
For someone who is buying the PAT as hunting bow, but still likes to go out and score well at local shoots the PAT is a fine "compromise". It has stability and an increased mass weight that 95% of the bows in the same category do not have.
Were I buying a bow that I wanted the best possible chance of winning those shoots or placing high consistently from week to week, then I would go with the best tool for for the job at hand: A longer bow that possessed even more stability.
JeffB
As opposed to just average I mean?
Heres a quote from JeffB's recent report on the Bowtech Patriot...
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are a hunter first, but don’t like to look like an idiot on the 3D range, the PATRIOT is right up your alley, and I would not be afraid to compete with it on a semi-serious level if you need “one bow to do it all”.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
The question that springs to mind by reading these words is why only a semi serious level?
In other words, What would make the patriot a better 3D bow that it already seems, and what in your opinion would be the ideal 3D bow?
I hope someone can enlighten me. Thanks.
Oh by the way, if you havent yet read that bow report by JeffB, it is hands down the most informative report I have ever read. Period. I never had seen before the process of "dipping" the camo finish onto a bow explained in detail.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Thanx for the praise!
Now to answer your question
My point is that while the PAT may not be the perfect tool for the job (3D shooting), for those who are still shooting on a local level and want to remain competitive, I don't feel they would be seriously handicapped as the bow has some of the great traits of a 3D bow.
Some folks, don't care how many points they score, and shoot bows that just are not consistent enough for the majority of archers to place high or win with competitively..namely super short treestand bows, rat-trap (as PW12 likes to call them) speedsters, or very slow bows set-up strictly to give them the best chance of downing game.
If you look at the majority of serious non pros,and PRO 3D shooters(barring some of the children, some women, and some very short draw archers) they are shooting moderate to long axle to axle lengths, moderate brace heights,and generally euipment that offers more stability. Simply due to the fact that from day to day, those bows will shoot more consistently for scores. Sure there are a few people here and there that can tear up the course fairly consistently with a 30" bow, but those people are rare exceptions, not the rule.
For someone who is buying the PAT as hunting bow, but still likes to go out and score well at local shoots the PAT is a fine "compromise". It has stability and an increased mass weight that 95% of the bows in the same category do not have.
Were I buying a bow that I wanted the best possible chance of winning those shoots or placing high consistently from week to week, then I would go with the best tool for for the job at hand: A longer bow that possessed even more stability.
JeffB
03-04-2002, 09:58 AM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 520
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
I think the simple answer to the patriot question would be a more forgiving geometry. The Patriot is 33 inches, if there was a 38-42" version, it might catch more use from 3D specialists than the shorter bow, though not necesarily.
What makes a great 3D bow these days is getting harder to say. There are a number of different formats showing up. As a Can. I have our rules to deal with, some shoot IBO, I am a lifetime memebr, but there aren't many shoots nearby. There are ASA shoots, and then all the weird formats for TV etc... some of the top shooters are also doing well on various spots courses. Overall the comon denominator is increasingly accuracy. I know a number of hotish IBO shooters who used to have speed rigs for IBO, who now shoot 280 across the board. So if the patriot is in the 320 range, there are a lot of places you can spend that extra 14% speed.
Another thing is practice ability. Shooters are shooting lots of arrows these days, and I am going to be interested to see how the new Icon takes off with a "round" wheel. I have shot a lot of harsh Maxcams, and I would be happy to shoot something a little less harsh. In my case I don't shoot a lot of arrows due to injury, so my real experience is different, I am trying to hang on to an ability I used to have shooting a hundred arrows a year! I know some guys who shoot that much before breakfast. But I think both of us would benefit from easier bows.
What makes a great 3D bow these days is getting harder to say. There are a number of different formats showing up. As a Can. I have our rules to deal with, some shoot IBO, I am a lifetime memebr, but there aren't many shoots nearby. There are ASA shoots, and then all the weird formats for TV etc... some of the top shooters are also doing well on various spots courses. Overall the comon denominator is increasingly accuracy. I know a number of hotish IBO shooters who used to have speed rigs for IBO, who now shoot 280 across the board. So if the patriot is in the 320 range, there are a lot of places you can spend that extra 14% speed.
Another thing is practice ability. Shooters are shooting lots of arrows these days, and I am going to be interested to see how the new Icon takes off with a "round" wheel. I have shot a lot of harsh Maxcams, and I would be happy to shoot something a little less harsh. In my case I don't shoot a lot of arrows due to injury, so my real experience is different, I am trying to hang on to an ability I used to have shooting a hundred arrows a year! I know some guys who shoot that much before breakfast. But I think both of us would benefit from easier bows.
03-04-2002, 11:19 AM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: What makes a 3D bow great?
Ok, I will be the one to be short and to the point.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
-37-39 inch axle to axle length
-High IBO speed..over 300 IBO rated for sure.
-At least a 7 inch brace height to add to the forgiveness level of the bow without taking away from the speed department.
-A heavier mass weight...at least 4-4.25 pound bare bow to aid in stability/soak up nervous twitches.
Ofcourse, as Jeff put it, the bow has to feel right to you.
That Pro38 I just sold would be a perfect example of a bow that had all of the perfect specs for 3D shooting, in my humble opinion.
Edited by - PABowhntr on 03/04/2002 12:34:41
-37-39 inch axle to axle length
-High IBO speed..over 300 IBO rated for sure.
-At least a 7 inch brace height to add to the forgiveness level of the bow without taking away from the speed department.
-A heavier mass weight...at least 4-4.25 pound bare bow to aid in stability/soak up nervous twitches.
Ofcourse, as Jeff put it, the bow has to feel right to you.
That Pro38 I just sold would be a perfect example of a bow that had all of the perfect specs for 3D shooting, in my humble opinion.
Edited by - PABowhntr on 03/04/2002 12:34:41