"Reports" and legal issues??
02-27-2002, 12:27 PM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
If your not lying and you're telling the good along with the bad, then I don't see how you could lose a lawsuit. Unfortunately, I know there is nothing to prevent someone from sueing another over almost anything. It would be extremely bad press for a company to sue a customer for giving an honest opinion. It does happen, but those companies usually do it with their dying breath.
Edited by - Straightarrow on 02/27/2002 13:36:28
Edited by - Straightarrow on 02/27/2002 13:36:28
02-27-2002, 12:34 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 520
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
Wouldn't they have to prove damage? I am generaly of the view that noboby pays the least attention to anything said on these kind of BBSs.
I think just as mater of what is right, and also what is prudent, one should not go out of one's way to put things in a nasty light. For instance I saw a Magnatec at a local dealer recently. I am just as happy as can be that we have milled Al risers today, and the days of cheap looking Magnesium risers are gone. I consider magnesium risers to be crap. On the other hand with the Magnatec, I had to look twice to be sure what it was. It looks very nice, It may be a good bow for certain people. And even though it is more costly, and conceivably more high tech to have a milled Al riser, I really can't prove such a bow works better.
If my review were to say all Mag. risers are crap, could I defend that in a court situation (just as an exercise, nobody is going to sue me I suppose). Could I defend it anyway? What is my evidence? Basicaly I think in the old days we needed a better product, we now have it in both the milled and cast products, we also have products that are cast and milled etc... Milled remains my preference. If I just say "I really like a milled riser, for the following reason who could object? If we take the high road, and state what we know for a fact only, or if we are going beyond fact, present it as opinion, I can't see how that is a problem.
I think just as mater of what is right, and also what is prudent, one should not go out of one's way to put things in a nasty light. For instance I saw a Magnatec at a local dealer recently. I am just as happy as can be that we have milled Al risers today, and the days of cheap looking Magnesium risers are gone. I consider magnesium risers to be crap. On the other hand with the Magnatec, I had to look twice to be sure what it was. It looks very nice, It may be a good bow for certain people. And even though it is more costly, and conceivably more high tech to have a milled Al riser, I really can't prove such a bow works better.
If my review were to say all Mag. risers are crap, could I defend that in a court situation (just as an exercise, nobody is going to sue me I suppose). Could I defend it anyway? What is my evidence? Basicaly I think in the old days we needed a better product, we now have it in both the milled and cast products, we also have products that are cast and milled etc... Milled remains my preference. If I just say "I really like a milled riser, for the following reason who could object? If we take the high road, and state what we know for a fact only, or if we are going beyond fact, present it as opinion, I can't see how that is a problem.
02-27-2002, 01:44 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oakland City Indiana USA
Posts: 524
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
I don't see it as a problem either and totally agree with that except… I think quite a bit of attention is paid to this and other boards on the net. Why do I think so? First, the fact that it's here and used by so many intelligent people says that people do pay attention to it, I know I do. And B- there was a tread about the warranty and dealership regulation policies of this same manufacturer on another board that got pretty intense. To the point that a big name online archery outfit began posts explaining their role in the situation and their policies and so fourth as well as defending itself. Then the real important man from behind the real big desk (CEO or PRES of Marketing of the manufacturer) got involved in the dialog and tried to contain the situation by addressing these concerns by explaining and defending the companies position and its policies. I'd say the people were being heard. There were a lot of guys real bent out of shape and getting real mouthy, and it turned into like a 3 part topic with a couple of hundred posts. He stated that they were evaluating the concerns and even gave some specific details that they'd address immediately. You have to respect that.
It all started because someone brought something to the attention of the message board members and someone else quoted a document concerning a confidential policy that the company intended to keep confidential. From that point on it was a free for all.
I don't condone unwarranted product or company bashing, but I do believe in the right to share information and "opinion". It's a good thing.
And I'm pretty sure somebody's paying attention to us.
It all started because someone brought something to the attention of the message board members and someone else quoted a document concerning a confidential policy that the company intended to keep confidential. From that point on it was a free for all.
I don't condone unwarranted product or company bashing, but I do believe in the right to share information and "opinion". It's a good thing.
And I'm pretty sure somebody's paying attention to us.
02-27-2002, 02:21 PM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sherman, Illinois USA
Posts: 53
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
I have been lurking around this site for quite some time, rarely replying. Lots of time spend reading some great informational posts. I hope the bow reports continue. I very much enjoy them. I started bowhunting about 18 years ago. I learned most of what I know the hard way. I did not have the luxury of a mentor. I just bought a used bow, taught myself to shoot, and went hunting. I proceeded to make every mistake known to man. I also spent countless dollars on "can't live without" equipment and accessories. Most of them were a complete waste of money and time. I very much wish there had been a place like this to gather information from so many experienced archers. I am not saying that anyone's opinion would keep me from making a purchase, but it would certainly make me aware of things I might not have thought about. I know there are plenty of folks reading these boards who are looking at information and not posting. They are gaining valuable insight. An equipment report may not make them change their mind, but might get them looking at things more closely, leading to better purchases, and ultimately, more enjoyment from the sport. Report on, guys. We need it.
02-27-2002, 02:30 PM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
Chief,
I agree, what is said here, is paid attention to and taken seriously by manufacturers. Also, I am aware of a lawsuit that started as the result of what was said on an internet forum, very similar to this one. The company sueing did not win and was all but put out of business because of the bad press resulting from them sueing an unsatisfied customer for voicing their opinion. These types of lawsuits can happen, but are highly unlikely unless you are deliberately lying in an attempt to cause harm to another.
I agree, what is said here, is paid attention to and taken seriously by manufacturers. Also, I am aware of a lawsuit that started as the result of what was said on an internet forum, very similar to this one. The company sueing did not win and was all but put out of business because of the bad press resulting from them sueing an unsatisfied customer for voicing their opinion. These types of lawsuits can happen, but are highly unlikely unless you are deliberately lying in an attempt to cause harm to another.
02-27-2002, 02:32 PM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
Thanks for the replies folks. I wasn't too worried about the report that I wrote on the Pro38 because it was a 95% positive report on the product. The other 5% was just personal dislikes for the design. Now if I posted a report that was more negative...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
...and I like how Chiefheadhunter wouldn't say the name of the company that was in that thread over on the Bowsite....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I am glad it was resolved in the end..and I think the whole thing was somewhat blown out of proportion to begin with.
Does that mean that if I say Hoyt should build a 33-35 inch TEC bow next year with a 7 inch brace height and a new hard drawing single cam (the Redline 2 maybe? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) then they might take it to heart and come out with one? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Who do I need to send that suggestion to? <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
...I guess one can only hope...
Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/27/2002 15:34:21
...and I like how Chiefheadhunter wouldn't say the name of the company that was in that thread over on the Bowsite....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>. I am glad it was resolved in the end..and I think the whole thing was somewhat blown out of proportion to begin with.
Does that mean that if I say Hoyt should build a 33-35 inch TEC bow next year with a 7 inch brace height and a new hard drawing single cam (the Redline 2 maybe? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>) then they might take it to heart and come out with one? <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Who do I need to send that suggestion to? <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>
...I guess one can only hope...
Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/27/2002 15:34:21
02-27-2002, 02:45 PM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
Well put, CHH, and yes, alot of people DO read (sometimes very intently!)what is posted on this and other boards. I also read the one you are speaking of and yes, it got quite nasty. Question-- how much influence does a 200+ post thread like that have on John Q public? That is what the manufacturers look at, and if it is worth their while to comment or take further measures. That one we're speaking of definately got the big boys' attention, whether good or bad comes of it remains to be seen. The forum it was posted on could take some heat for that one, simply because they did not pull the plug before it got carried away.
This issue DOES get complex, and the line is so fine between things that sometimes it isn't easy to distinguish between "opinions" and "bashing" when stating that you do not care for something, and this is the area that must be tread lightly upon, IMO. I feel both Frank and Jeff give very non-biased accounts, but as others have posted, it doesn't take much to get someones' "goat" nowadays, especially when targeting a particular product model and anything is negatively stated. That one particular "report" could have influence on many Archers' decisions on the purchase of that particular single product, and depending upon how the report is structured determines how closely a manufacturer will look at it to decide if it warrants a comment, or more detailed scrutiny. Normally we generalize things into "categories", like "Twin cam" "solocam", "carbons" "linecuters", etc., and altho we do speak of particular models from time to time, when making a "full detailed report" it means you are "picking the bow apart", and with the further scrutiny you embellish, in turn further scrutiny will be embellished onto your posts. I believe this to be true, something to chew on anyway. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
This issue DOES get complex, and the line is so fine between things that sometimes it isn't easy to distinguish between "opinions" and "bashing" when stating that you do not care for something, and this is the area that must be tread lightly upon, IMO. I feel both Frank and Jeff give very non-biased accounts, but as others have posted, it doesn't take much to get someones' "goat" nowadays, especially when targeting a particular product model and anything is negatively stated. That one particular "report" could have influence on many Archers' decisions on the purchase of that particular single product, and depending upon how the report is structured determines how closely a manufacturer will look at it to decide if it warrants a comment, or more detailed scrutiny. Normally we generalize things into "categories", like "Twin cam" "solocam", "carbons" "linecuters", etc., and altho we do speak of particular models from time to time, when making a "full detailed report" it means you are "picking the bow apart", and with the further scrutiny you embellish, in turn further scrutiny will be embellished onto your posts. I believe this to be true, something to chew on anyway. Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12
02-27-2002, 02:48 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Oakland City Indiana USA
Posts: 524
RE: "Reports" and legal issues??
Interesting thoughts guys and good post, IMO<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
PA - probably about as good as the chance of a given company sending one of us free product or commission checks for basically selling their stuff for them. Some of us should be salesmen I'd say. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I'd go as far as saying I'd almost always trust an opinion from any of our respected members before one givin to me by an actual salesman. That's probably a big reason why some are so effective. It makes sense that it could also work in reverse as well.
Edited by - chiefheadhunter on 02/27/2002 15:53:24
PA - probably about as good as the chance of a given company sending one of us free product or commission checks for basically selling their stuff for them. Some of us should be salesmen I'd say. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I'd go as far as saying I'd almost always trust an opinion from any of our respected members before one givin to me by an actual salesman. That's probably a big reason why some are so effective. It makes sense that it could also work in reverse as well.
Edited by - chiefheadhunter on 02/27/2002 15:53:24