Carpmaster

drop aways actually simplify tuning for broadheads once they are on the bow and set up, i went to one last year and with a hard right helical feather any broadhead i have lobbed flies true now, when i used to have fits with some of them. the key is having a well tuned bow before you go on to broadheads. then things like fletch, broadhead alignment, and dropaways really shine. that is my 2 cents from my own experiences.

Buckfevr

Clearly this is not the discussion I was looking to have. So I'll just go ahead and stick my neck out here and maybe we can have some dialogue. First of all I do not believe that optimal broadhead flight is acheived by getting the broadheads to hit with field points in the vast majority of cases. The geometry of the fixed head will have a different affect on the arrow spine than will a field point and unless the spine is so stiff that the difference is negligible the POI for optimal broahead flight will be different. I do think that comparing broadhead groups to field points does give some useful info regarding the setting of the nock point, but that's about it.

I think that the optimal way to tune centershot on broadheads is using the walkback method or some such equivalent method. Personally I like using a 20 and 40 yard distance going back and forth till the horizontal POI is set.

I think that the previous gold standard of getting broadheads to hit with field points was close enough because the bows were not generating the speeds that todays bows do. I think this is no longer the optimal way and I think that this will only be amplified going forward by continuous improvements in bow design and materials.

If you don't agree with my position then state why and give me your rationale and tuning method. But I want details. How do you determine adequate spine? How do you set the nock point and centershot for optimal broadhead flight?

dwaasp

I’ll try another 1cent worth:

I do not work for GKF and the first thing I did when I got the T.K.O. was call and complains, as usual. That’s when they told me they were going to ship new pins. The T.K.O. is about $50. I believe speed is best when the arrow is near the center of the free string & not high in the window, so I set the Launcher Block level with the window
& made pins that bend at the rear of the window letting the pins lay flat in the bottom of the window.

If one does this, make sure the pins contacts the arrow at the same elevation and the pins are set at the same angle?

Now GKF says bring the arrow up the last 1 or 2” which they say will drop it on the power stroke from 8 to 12”. I say for whatever it’s worth 1”, dropping-away in 8”, this will be before the acceleration pressure on the string stops, thus before the bow is loose against the bow arm, ridding the arrow of the multitude of sins transferred by the bow hand.(bad form, nervous, failing to keep the sight on target until the arrow impacts, torque, & you name it)

The bows I tuned with these rests was the 04 Patriot SC (which I complained a lot about the speed), the Mathews 3D SC & the Darton Lighting Duel. I changed the Serving on the 04 Pat so the D-Loop would turn up and down the string effortless.

I started with the string centered, and the nocking point up about ¼” . The 2 SCs tuned in a few shots to put bullet holes in paper at any distance, The Darton took a little longer.

When I got angry is when the Old Darton bought under the old AMO standards almost shot at the same speed as the Pat that I had just paid $700 for. & I am yet complaining.

JOE PA

I'm not really sure how much a drop-away has helped me except for the fact that you can use full helical fletching and not have contact issues. I prefer to bare shaft tune, preferably to 30 yards. Once this has been done, I rarely have issues with broadheads flying or grouping well, unless there is something wrong with the arrows. This has worked for mid-90's Bear and Jennings single cam bows (with bad nock travel) up to last year's Bowtech Pro 38 dual cam which shot as close to perfect with broadheads as any bow I've personally owned. That bow had the often maligned Whisker Biscuit rest. That said, I doubt that anyone else on these boards has a bow tuned as well as Len in Maryland. He achieves excellent bare shaft flight, and excellent broadhead accuracy (and right with field points) with a level nock travel Darton CPS combined with a Muzzy Zero Effect rest. Of course, he also shoots better than most of us can dream about.

As far as that old Darton, the Lightning was the fastest bow of its day (early-mid '90s) and still shoots right with many of the fastest bows today, as long as you stick with medium-heavier arrows. I have a Viper which is only about 10 fps slower than my more modern bows with medium weight arrows. It still shoots very accurately, in fact, it is still probably the most accurate bow I have, at least in my hands. Modern bows are much lighter and more compact than those Dartons. Most are significantly quieter than the Lightning as well. Recoil and vibration on newer bows has also improved greatly. Most people today are looking for a shorter, lighter bow with less noise, recoil, and vibration than the Lightning. That is where the advances in technology are directed. If you would get a Black Knight 2 or Patriot Dually, I think you would notice an increase in performance.

ijimmy

Hey buck back to your origanal question , I would say getting the proper arrow for your aplication is #1 .
1 Spine is critical , you dont want a underspined arrow to shoot broadheads , slightly overspined is a much better situation , and will tune much easyer than a underspined arrow .
2 Your fixed heads must be on straight .
3 Addiquate fletching , Cant belive someone would recomend 3" anything for fletching a fixed broadhead equiped arrow , some get by with 4" , I say go with 5" if you are shooting a fixed head , you must counteract the stearing effects of a fixed head in the front of your arrow with enough stearing in the back or your arrow will be unstable .
4 Quality arrows , You get what you pay for "sometimes" , Buy the best you can afford , but dont think inexpensive alluminums wont fly as they can outpreform some of the expensive pure carbons out there .
5 Good nocks , First your nocks must fit right , too tight and you are in for trouble , or headaches trying to get them to fly straight . One good saying is "Change your nocks , and change them often" . Especialy for an archery like myself who shoots off of the string with no cusion . They wear out , sometimes quickly .

Wow this has been all about arrows , and for good reason , get a bent one or a 2312 mixed with your 2314s and it aint flying with the rest of your arrows . Get a set or arrows that are matched to your bow and as close to identical as posable and you will have less headaches .
As far as tuneing the bow eastons tuneing chart sould be looked at , especialy group tuneing , and broadhead tuneing . Group tuneing would be #1 for me though as I believe that will give the best "straightest " arrow flight , and the broadhead tuneing section can prove to be imposable with some setups , as side to side toqure prevents feild tips from impacting with fixed heads on those setups with bad cabelrod toqure or for a person who toqures the bow bad with their grip .

dwaasp

My other nickel on the fall-away here.

One may need to change the way a Lifting cord is attached. And you will need a marked measured off arrow for tuning.

Put a short serving 2-3” (serving size .018) at the point it is to be attached. Tie a short string nock in the middle of this serving. However you attach the Lifting cord, do it in such a way, so it can be moved & set by rotating the string nock up & down. It is best that this cord connection is elastic as not to damage the string nock. You can then experiment on bringing the rest up from say ¾” to 2” more or less @ 1/64” at a time if you wished. Keep a record on what goes on.

The contact issue:
When you put new fletch on an arrow look at it in the sunlight before you shoot it, & look at it in the sunlight after each time you shoot it making sure there is no contact. You will see a mark if there is.

And the fletch and the side of the fletch the mark is on may be a clue to a problem.

OhiobowHunter56

... i am young and this topic is my big problem this year.. i dont use a drop away arrow rest...but i am usin fixed blade muzzys and they shoot horrible probably because i kno hardly anything about the subject of tuning....but answer this question....Will buying mechanical broadheads solve my problem alot easyer than tuning the ones i have??????? because from what i hear .. they fly almost just like a field point

G2 Shooter

Just to stick my nose into this thread. I think that meticulously building your arrows and aligning your broadheads is more important than what rest you use. Reason I say this is that I have used drop aways for 3 years now. My fixed blade broadheads always flew differently than my fieldpoints no matter how much tuning I did. Therefore, I used mechanicals and got good groups out to 35 yards. Well, after talking to Len, who says that any broadhead should group with your fieldpoints out of a properly tuned setup, I decided to pay more attention to my arrows. I went so far as to float them to find the heavy side of the spine. I reamed the ends so that they were at a 90 degree angle to the shaft before installing inserts and bushings. I reamed the inserts and bushings before installing broadheads and nocks and then spin tested every one of them. I also weighed them and they are within 0.5 grains of one another. After doing all of this I went out and shot the arrows with broadheads attached. Guess what, they all grouped with my fieldpoints. I can shoot a broadhead tipped arrow and then a fieldpoint tipped arrow at 30 yards and they are within 2" of other. If I was a better shot, they might touch.

I am using Carbon Express CX200's cut to 27" long. Aluminum inserts, Easton Uni Bushings and G-Nocks. EZE-Crest wraps and 3 Blazer 2" vanes. I use 100 grain fieldtips or broadheads. My fixed blade broadheads have 4, cut-on-contact blades with a 1" cutting diameter so no, they aren't Slick Tricks. Total arrow weight is 352 grains each. One of them is 352.5 grains. They are traveling at 298 FPS out of my Bowtech Defender VFT using a QAD Ultra Rest. So, you can get a fixed blade broadhead to fly well out of a fast bow if everything is built and tuned properly. Now my only problem is my consistancy.

This is not to say that you don't have to tune your bow properly. I just feel that you need to have your arrows right before you try to tune with them. It made things a lot easier.