PABowhntr

Now I am sure most of you are like me and tend to get tired of hearing that every single bow that gets a report done on it is “sure thing”, “ a winner”, “one of the best out there”. I get so disgusted sometimes with reading this type of stuff in some of the bowhunting magazines. Even the most well respected archery engineer in the country, Norb Mullaney, has to “hold back” in his reports because to fully explain his opinion on any given bow would mean sure problems for the magazine publishing his article.

Let me start off by stating that everyone knows I have been a rather large Hoyt fan over the past few years even though I have shot and owned numerous bows from numerous companies. Their bows seem to possess all of the characteristics that I tend to look for and find appealing. Those characteristics will always revolve around one thing….bowhunting. I am a bowhunter first and foremost. I want my bow(s) to function according to the preferences I have created from many years of bowhunting experiences. That means that a bow has to be accurate…Period! If I can’t hit what I am aiming at then what good is the bow to me? Second, the bow has to be relatively fast not just because of reducing yardage estimation errors but also because I tend to prefer higher levels of kinetic energy. In other words, I like to see dirt fly on the other side of the deer when I let an arrow go. This usually isn’t too difficult for me to attain with any bow because of my longer than average draw length and high-average draw weight. Third, the bow has to be quiet. The argument continues over deer jumping a bowstring, the speed of sound versus the speed of an arrow, blah, blah, blah… I tend to fall into the group that believes that a “person” would be less startled if someone whispered in their ear as opposed to screaming at the top of their lungs…..same goes for a loud bow and a quiet bow with a deer at twenty yards. Finally, I want a bow that is both light in overall mass weight and relatively average to short-average in overall length because it makes it both easier and more convenient to carry to and from your stand as well as when tracking a deer.

As stated above, those are my personal preferences when looking for a bow to hunt with. It should be noted that moderation is the key. Going to excess with any of these characteristics can lead to a decrease in the practicality of the overall setup…. Who wants a bow that is ultra quiet but sacrifices a flat shooting trajectory to get there? Who wants a bow that is ultra lightweight but sacrifices accuracy because you can’t hold it steady? Bowhunting equipment, especially bows, is a series of trade offs. I sincerely believe that you don’t get something for nothing. We have certain levels of technology at the current state and time that produce bows with certain characteristics both during the shot and after the shot. When the level of technology advances then so will the characteristics of the bows.

Ok, enough of a preface to this report.

Well, some of the folks here finally convinced me to try a new brand of bow…other than a Hoyt. In order to lure me away from something so perfect for me they had to prove to me that a new brand or style of bow was in some way “better”, for lack of a better word, than what I was currently shooting. Enter Bowtech and their speed.

I bought a 2001 Bowtech Pro38 last week. I had initially wanted to wait for a Patriot since it seemed to be more “in-line” with what I currently prefer to shoot but the local shop only received a 60 lb peak draw weight model this past weekend and that was just too light for my specs. So, I opted for the only other Bowtech Pro riser bow that he had in stock…the Pro 38.


I took it home and recorded all of the usual measurements. Axle to axle length is 37.75 inches, Brace height was a hair under 7.25 inches. Mass weight was a little over 4.25 lbs. Now, as I stated in my previous post on this bow I felt that the draw cycle was a little stiffer than most of the other conventional single cams on the market and extensive shooting didn’t change my opinion of this. The bow does come up to peak weight relatively quickly and maintains it over a large portion of the draw cycle. It definitely isn’t for those folks who have back or shoulder problems. Though, I will say that the cam/draw cycle seemed to grow on me until I became relatively accustomed to shooting it.

The overall fit and finish of the bow was excellent. Everything seemed to fit snugly into place. There was no sloppiness in the cams/bushings/axle nor or in the limb pocket area. The camo paint job seemed to be very good and I found next to no blemishes or flaws in the paint scheme. The bow felt really solid as well. Overall I think the craftsmanship of the bow was above average.




Ofcourse I would be stupid not to talk about the bow’s speed potential. With the Infinity cam the bow’s advertised IBO speed is between 313-320 fps. Since my draw length is an inch over IBO specs I should be able to realistically get 10 fps over the advertised IBO speed. Well, right “out of the box” I put a single brass nockset on the string…bottomed out the limbs which put the bow right at 70 lbs and put a 365 grain carbon on the bow string. I don’t have a 350 grain arrow so I expected the bow to be lose roughly 3 fps from my guestimates. I didn’t tune the bow in any way other than to “rough tune” for centershot and nockheight.

Bam! 323 fps! 322 fps! 323 fps! 322 fps!

Now add those 3 fps I mentioned…325-326 fps…and subtract 10 fps for my 31 inch draw length…..315-316 fps….just as advertised. It really is surprising because the bow doesn’t “Feel” fast. I also tried shooting my 420 grain hunting arrows out of the bow and was able to get 298-300 fps. I believe that is somewhere in the neighborhood of 83 ft. lbs of kinetic energy!

As Jeff put it…”Holy Crap-a-rooni”!! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> I could put a shovel on the front of an arrow and shoot it out of this bow with a flat trajectory!

I did say that the bow didn’t “feel” fast and I meant it. There is definitely not much recoil or vibration in the grip during the shot. Surprisingly less than I expected from a bow pushing out an arrow at this kind of speed….and also surprisingly from a single cam/idler wheel bow that doesn’t have a perimeter weighted cam which is supposed to “counteract recoil generated by the bow’s limbs”.

There were several other “niceties” that I found appealing, like the rear mounted riser insert for adding a rear-mounted stabilizer for further balance. Though it isn’t practical or necessary for a hunting scenario it is nice for “high tech” 3D rigs and just as an option in general. I also liked the wider tract on the single track idler wheel. I believe this type of design probably leads to less overall serving wear at a critical spot in the bow string.






The Characteristics that I didn’t Like:

First off is everyone’s chief complaint about Bowtech’s bows…the grip. It is very well rounded and extremely smooth which is probably the main reason that it is tolerable. The throat of the grip isn’t bad at all but the heel is very wide and can cause torque problems if too much of the heel/palm of your hand is utilized. The grip design itself made me almost feel like I had to lock my bow arm out more than normal. I definitely did not like it.






Second is a problem with most bow manufacturers’ advertised/listed draw length. I had the pro shop worker put on the appropriate module for a 31 inch draw length and set the draw stop for a position that wasn’t quite as far back in the groove as it could possibly go…but close. The center of the draw stop peg was right at the second graduation on the draw stop peg groove of the cam. An AMO measurement of the draw length revealed a 31.5 inch length. That is a half of an inch longer than advertised without having the draw stop peg “fully extended”. I did not put it at its furthest setting but I believe it would add another 1/8th to 1/16 of inch to the draw length. This isn’t an issue with the Infinity cam as the draw stop is obviously adjustable but it may present a problem with the Post Feed or other Bowtech cam. This bow still shot within its advertised IBO speed range with a “corrected” AMO draw length…that is not the issue here. The longer than average draw length definitely impacts shooting form and can lead to poor shooting habits. That would be my primary concern.

Related to this is the draw top itself. It is somewhat similar to the draw/limb stop used on PSE’s lightning cam in past years. As Jeff stated it does give a very positive back wall feel to the bow which helps add to consistency. But, as with the Lightning cam it makes a noticeable sound (almost a “pop”) when drawn back hard against the wall and into the limb. Again, this wouldn’t be a problem for certain types of scenarios but could be a major issue in others.




Third is the Winners Choice String. Though the overall amount of bow noise and the level of recoil and vibration were lower than expected there was a noticeable “buzzing” sound after each shot. After extensively checking the accessories I narrowed the noise down to the bowstring itself and especially the peep sight. For some reason my Shurz-a-peep peep sight seems to amplify the string resonance and creates a buzzing sound at the end of each shot. Overall this wouldn’t be a problem because one could simply add string silencers and the issue should be resolved. But, I believe the string material/design is the reason behind this “problem”. Imagine plucking a guitar string…..and then imagine plucking a clothesline….the guitar string makes more noise, right? The lack of give in the Winners Choice string seems to increase the level of vibration in the bowstring making it somewhat louder. Again this can easily be resolved with a string-silencing device but I thought it worthy of mentioning. I am also curious as to why Winners Choice chose to use a braided serving material on the center serving of the string as well on the section of the cable that attaches to the single cam and yet utilizes a monofilament type material in all of the other places on the string and cable.

Fourth is the film dipping. I like the overall pattern and think it is probably one of the most realistic tranferences of a camo pattern to the surface of a bow (with the exception of some of older style Martin/Advantage Camo combinations) but I have a problem with the durability. After only having the bow a few days there are one or two small spots where the paint has flaked. It isn’t anything major and the spots are only about twice the size of a pen point but considering the quality of the rest of the bow I find this somewhat disappointing. I realize that other companies have this problem and that Bowtech is going with a “double dip” process this year so hopefully this isn’t a problem with the 2002 bows.

Lastly is the overall feel of the bow itself. This relates directly to what I stated at the beginning of this looooooonnngg post and could probably be “remedied” if I were to switch to the shorter/lighter Patriot model (though it isn’t that much lighter…<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>). The “Pro” riser design specifically puts more weight to the extreme top and bottom of the bow. This is designed to increase the stability of the bow because it is much more difficult to cant a design like this. Directly related to this is the overall mass weight of the bow. Bare bow it is significantly over 4 lbs. With accessories on it is probably over 5 lbs and then some (depending on accessories). The heavier overall mass weight and the distribution of the weight make it a very stable bow. It would be ideally suited for a 3D course or an indoor target scenario where stability takes precedence to ease of carrying and maneuverability. But in a hunting scenario I definitely don’t want the extra pound that the bow weighs over some of its competition nor do I like the fact that the weight isn’t more evenly distributed over the entire length of the bow. To me it almost feels like holding a 2x4 at arms length with two 5 lbs weights nailed to each end of the board. (That was not meant as a derogatory statement but rather as a way of relating the overall handling feel of the mass weight and weight distribution of the bow itself).

Conclusion:

In conclusion, I would recommend the Pro 38 to anyone out there looking for an extremely stable bow that generates ridiculous speed and very little noise/recoil overall. I think it has many fine characteristics that will also appeal to the hardcore 3D shooter and indoor target archer (with a lower draw weight setting). Anyone looking for somewhat of a retro design when bows were heavier and longer than is the norm nowadays would be well advised to give the Pro38 a hard look.

So, which bow(s) do you guys want me to check out next? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>



Edited- This post has been edited for grammar and to remove some earlier comments that might take away from the initial intent of the post. Thanks.

Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/25/2002 12:25:14

JeffB

You guys are getting the &quot;pop&quot; sound w/ the O-ring on the draw stop? I can't intentionally make the bow have a pop on both my MM and my Patriot...must be you long armed Gorillas

Great report Frank..

Sorry ya didn't want to keep it.....

I'm actually starting to like the grip on the PAT very much...In my hands the riser is so stable that I'm not torqueing it at all..

And yes the 2001 PRO-38 is heavy...the 2002 models are a bit lighter and quieter.

I still think you try a PAT..but if the BT's don't interest you anymore, then how bout the TRX from Jennings?

JeffB

PABowhntr

Dang Jeff! It only took you less than 10 minutes to read my whole post, look at the pictures and then type a reply....<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

JeffB

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Dang Jeff! It only took you less than 10 minutes to read my whole post, look at the pictures and then type a reply....<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

BTW, you should put the LS's down about another inch towards the riser to find the sweet spot..

OK what am I missing....I saw the pic w/ the O-ring... Did you misundertand me? I was trying to say that MY MM and Pat don't make a pop sound even w/ the O-Ring on..Mat had said the same thing as you in another post about the &quot;pop&quot;..

Am I just missing something totally obvious?

JeffB
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

PABowhntr

Jeff,

Geeshhh, I was just joking around about you reading so fast...that is all...I did put the depressed and then smart-alleck smiley at the end so you knew I was just jokin' with you.

Edited....Ok, I will put the limbsavers down a little further and see what happens. Actually, I didn't really think they were needed that much in the first place. The bow doesn't have that much vibration to begin with.

Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/25/2002 11:54:54

Arthur P

Hey Frank! About that grip.... Ever heard of a wood rasp? Customize that puppy!

Zippernut

Place a small section of moleskin on the underside of the limb where the draw stop hits and remove the o-ring. No more &quot;POP&quot;.

akbowhunter

guys i just have one thing to say. thanks, its nice to read these reports. even tho im not looking for a new bow i do like to stay informed. my bowtech bk2 will do me for a few years atleast. i do know how much work it is to set up and realy concentrate on a bow with an open mind.
Ron

bigcountry25

Sorry to hear the Pro 38 didn't quite live up to hipe. I really like my dual cam model. You are right about the strings being noisy, on mine it was were the buss cables crossed. I hardly notice it now though. When I first shot mine I was amazed at the speed and really liked the heavier mass weight the bow has, but after the first real shooting time I had with mine it did leave me wondering if this was really what I wanted but after a few more times with it now I feel at one with the bow, I guess part of that was it was my first dual cam bow and the draw cycle was much different from my reflex solo cam. everyone is different and PA I wouldn't ditch that thing just yet give it some time and it might just grow on you.

moonge

nice report, looks well done & nice to see you talk about something other than hoyt! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>