Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
07-16-2004, 10:11 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 140
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
DaveC Good Work:
DaveC, I saw that every company always says, their Bows shoot best at MAX, so I bought where I wished to shoot. I did not even think to test at the lesser weights; well I guess this focus is good for something.
And it is true, many people as myself, try to pay up to $700 for a few fps and when it is not there, I guess to bad?? On many small land lots with small game, where a gun would not be allowed; one would wish to have a Bow that could stay in a 2” spot without 10 sight pins??
DaveC, I saw that every company always says, their Bows shoot best at MAX, so I bought where I wished to shoot. I did not even think to test at the lesser weights; well I guess this focus is good for something.
And it is true, many people as myself, try to pay up to $700 for a few fps and when it is not there, I guess to bad?? On many small land lots with small game, where a gun would not be allowed; one would wish to have a Bow that could stay in a 2” spot without 10 sight pins??
07-17-2004, 07:42 AM
#23
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: North Texas
Posts: 932
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
On many small land lots with small game, where a gun would not be allowed; one would wish to have a Bow that could stay in a 2” spot without 10 sight pins??
07-17-2004, 11:34 AM
#24
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 140
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
DaveC
I ask Bowtech about trading up this Bow for a 70# or Dually: the word was no, a return may Lose Face for them. And they seem to say, see your dealer, my dealer thought was, that one was not to presume a speed, near the word put out by the companies.
I ask Bowtech about trading up this Bow for a 70# or Dually: the word was no, a return may Lose Face for them. And they seem to say, see your dealer, my dealer thought was, that one was not to presume a speed, near the word put out by the companies.
07-17-2004, 11:37 AM
#25
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 140
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
Swamp Dawg
On Lots in CA 2-10 ac. Most are to near roads or other homes, for shooting guns, even in the mountains where I live. I know the Trajectory Table in the book, Balanced BowHunting, is shot with 5” helical fletching: One could improve on that with a Stable Bow, @ 310 fps or more, 3” off-set fletch, & a drop-away rest that drops away before the end of pressure acceleration on the string, & a couple of inches before deacceleration pressure on the string, to purge some of the failing of the Bow Hand,(bad form, nervous, lack of practice, torque, no follow through the sight picture until the arrow hits target & etc.), in other words be able to pass it around like a gun. And I guess that is how you got the 1” drop from 25 to 30 yds. Now we were hoping something like that, would be the case also.
On Lots in CA 2-10 ac. Most are to near roads or other homes, for shooting guns, even in the mountains where I live. I know the Trajectory Table in the book, Balanced BowHunting, is shot with 5” helical fletching: One could improve on that with a Stable Bow, @ 310 fps or more, 3” off-set fletch, & a drop-away rest that drops away before the end of pressure acceleration on the string, & a couple of inches before deacceleration pressure on the string, to purge some of the failing of the Bow Hand,(bad form, nervous, lack of practice, torque, no follow through the sight picture until the arrow hits target & etc.), in other words be able to pass it around like a gun. And I guess that is how you got the 1” drop from 25 to 30 yds. Now we were hoping something like that, would be the case also.
07-18-2004, 12:40 PM
#27
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 140
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
Thanks for the understanding JMAC_OR: we do not have the ability or patients to often get within less than 30 or 35 yds of small game in these desert mountains, so we wished for more speed. The pro shop where I got the bow does not believe in the Bow Adds at all, & when I told the tech what speed I planed to shoot the Bow, he said “in your dreams only” & seamed to think I was a Nut: And I will not argue that point here.
But when we took it home, set it up with a 316 gr arrow, a full 5 gr per # as we and the shop got 63#. We took off the hush kit and brass nock it came with & installed a short D Loop. When I saw the 310 reading I was shocked. We had an old Darton Lighting here that we could get to shoot 309.
That is when I started the Exchange with the Shop & Bowtech.
The rest is written on this Forum.
I will Post my Theory, on the BC test on this Forum.
But when we took it home, set it up with a 316 gr arrow, a full 5 gr per # as we and the shop got 63#. We took off the hush kit and brass nock it came with & installed a short D Loop. When I saw the 310 reading I was shocked. We had an old Darton Lighting here that we could get to shoot 309.
That is when I started the Exchange with the Shop & Bowtech.
The rest is written on this Forum.
I will Post my Theory, on the BC test on this Forum.
07-18-2004, 02:15 PM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
As you are learning depending on the IBO rating of a bow to be accurate is rather futile. Even with bowtech, who has some of the most consistant ratings you can get. They make no garauntees your bow will actually shoot that fast when you get it however. And they even expain it in the manual. Your bow should at least shoot close to what they say it will. Some companies are no where near what they rate thier bows for. IBO is a pretty lax standard and the companies can get away with a lot. The AMO rating is much more accurate, but you don't see bow companies list the AMO speed very often. The criteria for the AMO spec is much more outlined and precise. It makes it harder to fudge things one way or the other. It unfortunately doesn't look as good since the speeds are slower.
Not to mention the equipment we use to measure this sort of stuff is not all that accurate any way. There are so many variables to the equation off exact speed for a projectile, espeacially one as long as an arrow that it would be very difficult to repeat the test to within one FPS with different equipment.
We normally use the IBO rating as a comparison thing. It sort of lets you know what bows are more effecient than others. That is providing the companies didn't cheat a little on thier specs, or flat out fib about them.
In your previous post you mentioned something like "passing it around like a gun". If by this you mean you want to be able to set your bow up, then hand it to someone else and have them shoot the same, good luck. It really doesn't work that way with archery. Especially with with the more complicated set ups like compound bows with rests and sights, and peeps. Every one shoots a bow differently and has different demensions to there body. If you just hand your bow to someone else, even if the draw length is the same, they will most likely not get arrows to impact in the same spot. I'm not saying it can't happen, just the odds are not very good. If you were going to try this, I would suggest using the NO PEEP by Timberline. This would give you the best results, but still may not be as accurate as you want. I have noticed with mine grip pressure effects the impact of the arrows. So if the other person grips the bow differently than you do (and they most likley will) the arrow will impact in a different spot.
Bows are not guns, period. That's why people that are into archery are so passionate about it. It is a very individual type of sport. Full of conjectures, opinions and theories. All of which may or may not be correct.
Good luck with your quest. Remeber the most important thing here is to have fun and love what you are doing. If not, why bother with it.
I'm thinking from what I'm hearing you might be more well suited with a good crossbow. Are they legal where you live? Something like this would have more of the qualities you are looking for. And they are fun to shoot as well. I may get slammed for mentioning it here, but what the heck. Too bad you already have the bow though. I don't know if your dealer would let you do some sort of trade up or something. Or you could sell the bow I guess. Bowtech's most likely have pretty decent resale value
Paul
Not to mention the equipment we use to measure this sort of stuff is not all that accurate any way. There are so many variables to the equation off exact speed for a projectile, espeacially one as long as an arrow that it would be very difficult to repeat the test to within one FPS with different equipment.
We normally use the IBO rating as a comparison thing. It sort of lets you know what bows are more effecient than others. That is providing the companies didn't cheat a little on thier specs, or flat out fib about them.
In your previous post you mentioned something like "passing it around like a gun". If by this you mean you want to be able to set your bow up, then hand it to someone else and have them shoot the same, good luck. It really doesn't work that way with archery. Especially with with the more complicated set ups like compound bows with rests and sights, and peeps. Every one shoots a bow differently and has different demensions to there body. If you just hand your bow to someone else, even if the draw length is the same, they will most likely not get arrows to impact in the same spot. I'm not saying it can't happen, just the odds are not very good. If you were going to try this, I would suggest using the NO PEEP by Timberline. This would give you the best results, but still may not be as accurate as you want. I have noticed with mine grip pressure effects the impact of the arrows. So if the other person grips the bow differently than you do (and they most likley will) the arrow will impact in a different spot.
Bows are not guns, period. That's why people that are into archery are so passionate about it. It is a very individual type of sport. Full of conjectures, opinions and theories. All of which may or may not be correct.
Good luck with your quest. Remeber the most important thing here is to have fun and love what you are doing. If not, why bother with it.
I'm thinking from what I'm hearing you might be more well suited with a good crossbow. Are they legal where you live? Something like this would have more of the qualities you are looking for. And they are fun to shoot as well. I may get slammed for mentioning it here, but what the heck. Too bad you already have the bow though. I don't know if your dealer would let you do some sort of trade up or something. Or you could sell the bow I guess. Bowtech's most likely have pretty decent resale value
Paul
07-18-2004, 11:58 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 140
RE: Lettery about speed from Bowtech:
Thanks Paul for the info:
What I would like to do is trade up to the 70#. Now I would give $300 but Bowtech says they do not do such things. Now I will try the shop; but if they say $400 or more I would not be happy. As you suggest I will check the resale value on this Bow & I could set it up to get the BC’s 319; perhaps the way they did it. The shop where I got it does keep the 70’s in stock & if the ones they got, shoot as the one DaveC talked about @ 62# I could live with it. I do like the way they shoot but would like to get my Money’s Worth. And I would like for the companies to clarify this word “EFFICIENCY” if a 70 set at 62 will outshoot a 60#, shot @ 62#.
What I would like to do is trade up to the 70#. Now I would give $300 but Bowtech says they do not do such things. Now I will try the shop; but if they say $400 or more I would not be happy. As you suggest I will check the resale value on this Bow & I could set it up to get the BC’s 319; perhaps the way they did it. The shop where I got it does keep the 70’s in stock & if the ones they got, shoot as the one DaveC talked about @ 62# I could live with it. I do like the way they shoot but would like to get my Money’s Worth. And I would like for the companies to clarify this word “EFFICIENCY” if a 70 set at 62 will outshoot a 60#, shot @ 62#.
