c j

Hey everyone. I've owned a bow for over 10 years, but never really got into it until this spring. Now I'm hooked for life! Can't believe it took me this long! Anyway, I recently bought a BowTech Liberty, which I'm really happy with. Right now I have it set up with a Whisper Disk rest, which I don't really have much opinion on one way or the other yet. I may end up trying a drop-away (APA Ultimate Twister is the one I'm leaning toward) or maybe even a new generation Whisker Biscuit (yes, I know THAT is opening up a can of worms). It's set at 60lbs on a 27" draw, but I plan to move it up to 65lbs or so before the season.

I think I may be starting to get a grasp on things, for the most part - except arrows. I'm still pretty much at a loss on those. Currently, all I have are aluminum Easton XX75 2213 Superlites. I have a tow other sets coming in, though: Game Tracker Carbon Express 400s with 4" vanes, and a set of Blue Jacket 230 with a .228 diameter. I'm also looking at some Easton-exclusive carbon express cx 200s.

Are any of these arrows even close to being a proper fit? What weight/length ratio would work best? What's the right spine?

Also, the pro shop where I bought my bow said there was no point to trying to tune the bow with the Whisper Disk or the Whisker Biscuit. I got the impression he'd just rather not help, since he's already sold me a bow. He also said there's no point tuning it if you're shooting fingers, either. (I used to shoot fingers with my other bow, but have been using a release with the Liberty)

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.

Jason N

Please, don't heed his advice....that's terrible advice!!![:@][:'(] Any bow you plan to shoot NEEDS to be tuned. End of story....if you plan on hunting with it you'll need to tune your arrow/broadheads too. As for you're arrow selection....I haven't the fogiest as I'm not familar with any of those shafts. You can go to Easton's website and use an interactive chart to determine the proper arrow spine, etc.

EDIT- Almost forgot, welcome to the wonderful world of archery! Hang on and catch the buzz of our addiction....we call it bowhunting!!

PABowhntr

Pretty much the same comments here. You are going to have to group tune, paper tune or whatever the bow. There is no getting around that otherwise you are going to be shooting very poorly.

Shooting a whisker biscuit or a whisper disk does not change this fact. Just because they are full containment...and full contact at that...rests does not mean that you cannot get good, consistant and accurate arrow flight out of them with a proper tune.

As for the arrows....this one has me boggled...

The last time I checked carbon express arrows were not manufactured by Easton though Easton makes quite a few all carbon shafts that are comparable to the carbon express lineup. Head over to www.bowjackson.com and punch in your setup numbers. His chart will recommend several good shaft sizes to start you out. I have not tried the Easton one that Jason recommended but I am sure it will work just as well.

c j

Sorry about that; I got that 'Easton-exclusive carbon express cx 200s' directly from an Ebay auction, so apparently it's one of those deals where the seller isn't exactly giving an accurate description.

Thank you for the help, guys!

c j

Thanks! Addiction is right! I went out turking hunting for the first time in my life this spring and now I'm obsessed with that and with archery/bowhunting. This may be blasphemous to say, but I bought a deer tag for this fall in case I see one while I'm turkey hunting.

walks with a gimp

My advise would be that if you're stuck on shooting with your fingers, just screw on some fixed blade broadheads and adjust your arrow rest to give you the best arrow flight you can see. Shoot towards a dark back stop at a distance and watch the arrow flight, strive for a wobble free arrow flight which will indicate a good tune and release. I shoot with two fingers under the arrow's nock and I can shoot very well this way with good arrow flight, even with a 31 inch ATA bow. Good luck, you picked a very nice hunting bow,,,, and welcome to the boards[8D]

c j

Thank you, WWAG, that should help tremendously.

I was hoping to maybe stick with finger shooting, but the guy at the shop was so adamant that it was insane to do that with anything short of a 39" ATA bow that I caved. I have shot it several times using a finger tab and dropping the ring finger off after I'm at full draw, which seemed to work ok, but there was about a 9" height difference at 20 yards between where I'd shoot with fingers and where I'd shoot with a release. I do like the 'feel' of shooting fingers better, but the release is starting to grow on me.

Does putting two fingers below the nock help prevent the arrow from torquing off the rest? It's kind of a moot point for me on this bow, but my old bow still has the plastic tab rest.

Also, can you tell which way to adjust the rest by what the arrow's doing in flight ?

Thanks again!

Arthur P

Tell that guy to stick it where the sun don't shine and shoot the style YOU WANT to shoot. Shooting fingers is tougher with shorter bows, but not impossible. And you definitely tune the bow, no matter what style you shoot.

The guy is dispensing pitifully bad infomation. Makes me shake my head in disgust when I hear about that kind of shop personnel.

I'm a fingers shooter. I've shot releases but very much prefer shooting with my fingers. I'm also a barebow shooter. No sights or releases. The industry hates people like me.

You must have a rest that will work for fingers shooting. I know absolutely nothing about the whisper disk but, from the pictures I've seen of it, I have serious doubts about it's suitability for fingers shooting. There are a couple of flipper rests that I like... A Cavalier FreeFlyte micro adjust and an NAP Centerest. If you want an inexpensive rest to try fingers shooting, then the NAP is all you need.

How do you intend to anchor for fingers shooting? At the corner of the mouth or below the chin? If you anchor at the corner of your mouth, I'd recommend drawing split fingers, then dropping the index finger off the string, letting it rest against the string and anchor without holding any weight. Or you can keep the split finger draw at anchor and drop the ring finger off. Whichever feels more comfortable and natural for you.

With sights, I do not recommend using the index finger under the nock for a 2-under draw/release and anchoring at the corner of the mouth. That kind of anchor will bring the sight pins down too far to set much more than a 30 yard pin.

If you intend to use the classic target archery anchor under your chin and using a kisser, then you can use whatever draw/release method feels best.

Torquing the arrow off the rest is a problem with tension in the drawing hand. Your fingers are curling in, causing the string to roll the arrow away from the rest as you draw. An easy remedy is to curl the fingers in at the beginning of the draw and letting them straighten out while pulling the string. The string will roll the arrow into the rest instead of away from it.

c j

That's kind of what I suspected, but I figured he must know better, since he's been in it for awhile and he's actually the shop owner, not just an employee. But it took me about 15 seconds in there to realize I was going to get more info and help from this board and reading other stuff around the 'net than what I could get from the two owners.

What kinds of rests do/don't work with finger shooting? Do full containments like the Whisper Disk and the Whisker Biscuit not allow enough wiggle room for the arrow? I've also heard that you can't use drop-aways for fingers. Do they allow too much wiggle room? I'm still at the pre-school level on arrow physics.

When I shot fingers with my Bear, I kept all three on-string (one up and two below) and used a 3-fingered glove, anchoring with the index touching the corner of my mouth. When I've tried fingers with my BowTech, I used a tab, had the index above the arrow and anchored the same way, but dropped off the ring finger after I hit full draw, so I had one up and one below the arrow. Thought if I was to keep doing that I might want to cut the tab somewhat to remove the excess flap left when I pulled the ring finger off at full draw. I blew out a tendon in that ring finger when I was in high school and it's never quite been the same, so I'm not sure I could hold it with just the ring and the middle finger. Never tried it though.

I've also been told it helps to try not to pinch the arrow as much. The problem I used to have with my glove is that it was too short on my fingers; it barely goes past the first knuckle, so I couldn't curl much before I drew or I'd have the string behind the glove. So I ended up pulling back with just fingertips. I didn't get the tab until after I had the BowTech, which had the W/D rest, so I don't know if that tab would have helped me correct the problem or not. I'll have to shoot a few with the Bear to check.

Thank you for all the help!!

Arthur P

The thing about total containment rests, and why I think they are NOT a good choice for fingers shootin', is archers' paradox. When an arrow is shot with fingers, the first thing the arrow does is flex inwards, toward the riser. Then that flex rebounds and flexes outwards, away from the riser, as the arrow passes. They call it paradox because the arrow flies straight to the target even after all that flexing. Watch a slow motion video of someone shooting fingers and you'll understand what I'm talking about. You wonder how in the world an arrow can ever come close to what it's aimed at.

Used to have a bookmark for a slo-mo video of Terry Ragsdale shooting fingers, but my puter crashed and I lost it. Anybody else got the link?

My personal choice for rests are either flippers or springies. Golden Key Futura still makes a boatload of fingers rests. I suggest you roam around in their website and take a look at what they offer.

www.goldenkeyarchery.com

As for your fingers and anchor, if you like a glove better than a tab, then I highly recommend the Damascus glove. It covers all 3 fingers, palm to tips, so there is no worry about the string getting hung up on the stalls. It's light, thin and durable leather that gives you excellent feel and control of the string.

Your bow is so short that you will likely not be able to use a 3-finger release. I imagine you'll have to drop off one finger. Otherwise, the string angle will squeeze your fingers into the arrow nock, forcing you to pinch the nock. That string pinch will also give you trouble getting off the string when you release, especially if your letoff is over 65%. Personally, I'd drop off the index finger and leave it resting over the string while keeping it in contact with my anchor point. String pressed between your finger and anchor, in other words. You may decide dropping the ring finger works best for you. Experiment with it and find out which way is best for you.

I've even seen some guys shooting fingers on short bows that drop off both the index AND ring fingers, using only the middle finger to release.[:-] There are ways to shoot short, high letoff bows with fingers.