** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
03-13-2004, 12:59 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
APA Ultimate “Twister” (fall away rest)
Background:
We had this exact rest design on a few of our bows at the ATA show and after beating on them for those 4 days I was impressed with it enough to consider it as an everyday hunting rest…..at least to give it a shot against the TT Shakey hunter I had currently installed on my BowTech Liberty. I will state for the record that I have no affiliation with APA in any way, was not given the rest for free or discount, and was not asked to do any sort of a report. I simply wanted to learn more about it when I actually had time to sit and look at it closer and set one up. I know we will hear more about it this year but I wanted to give you guys a heads up as I don’t think many are familiar with it yet.
Overview:
Actually as the name implies this rest is not a typical “Fall away” in the sense of the term that the rest drops or falls away from beneath the arrow. As the name implies the launcher arms actually swing or “Twist” out of the path of the arrow at release. The design incorporates a complete containment of the arrow shaft at rest, and the attachment point of the launcher itself actually sits above the line of the arrow shaft.
The launcher itself is actuated via a cable connection similar to that found on many of the typical fall away rests on the market……..it seems that it is designed to be used in conjunction with the cable slide although I see no reason why the down cable couldn’t be used other than a bit of an odd angle created at full draw. I have mine as you can see in the pictures attached to the slide itself.
Set Up:
For a cord style rest, this isn’t THE easiest to set-up that I have ever tried because there’s a bit more going on and the design is different than what many are used to, but set-up is not difficult……..The actual cord set-up is as easy as it gets as there is no need to serve anything in (unless you choose to use the cable). Everyday string loop material, scissors and a lighter is all that you need. I first attached the cord to the slide via a simple overhand knot. Pulled tight, clipped and melted into a mushroom to avoid slipping.
The attachment point of the cord to the rest is where this rest shines at set-up…….the cord passes through a hole in the backside of the launcher (The hole is located at the end of the word “Twister” in my pictures) The screw at the top of this hole locks the cord in place while you fine tune cord length for drop rate. Very nice feature because you can get very fine changes in cord length until you have it just right. Once you have it the length that you like, lock down the screw snugly on the cord, trim the excess and melt it down. You are done.
The launcher arms themselves have a built in stop for height that you must set via turning the entire barrel of the launcher itself…..I set mine to be just about straight up and down (slightly backward at rest) to achieve a level launching platform at full draw.
The mounting plate itself has grooves cut into it to further add to the height adjustments by sliding the entire rest up and down via this bracket.
I found on my Liberty that I was limited to the position that you see in the pictures. Anything closer made the launcher arms contact the arrow shelf at full draw prohibiting the swing of the unit.
I am a bit confused as to how anyone could mount the rest any closer to the arrow shelf itself without raising the bracket to an unnatural height to clear the shelf. In any event the rest fit my bow and works very well in the position that I have it mounted, however I was unable to use the included set screws to lock the bracket down further as the holes do not line up with the riser.
Windage adjustments are made via a windage screw that allows you to actually dial the entire launcher barrel in and out, and the launcher itself has 3 settings for spring tension (you can see the 3 small holes in the pics) to allow for different drop rates. I have mine in the middle setting.
Performance:
As you can see in the pictures, as the slide reaches full draw the launcher arms twist upward capturing the arrow and placing it in launch position, at release the slide travels back to rest and the launcher twists back into a vertical position allowing for the maximum clearance through the launcher itself. Maximum clearance is achieved when the arms are at the vertical position at rest.
The launcher while being full containment still has a conventional prong style contact point…..meaning that there are 2 separate sides to the launcher, with a space in between.
While I believe the space is not completely necessary, it gives the shooter the extra assurance that the vanes/feathers are passing through untouched at release. I have had zero contact as determined by spraying the rest, even with my 4” helical feathers on my fat CXL 350 3D shafts. Typical diameter carbon arrows will be of no concern with any type of fletching choice as best as I can tell. The largest diameter shafts with large feathers will come close to contacting the sides but there is still a little room.
It would appear that the rest is designed for a “Cock Vane” down shooting style and that is how I have mine oriented. With smaller diameter carbons the shape of the launcher will allow you any orientation you wish, but I would recommend that you try cock feather down with the large diameter shafts and bigger fletch choices.
They give you enough room for anything but not by much when you get to the larger stuff.
I have been shooting the rest for weeks now and the accuracy has been terrific. On par with the TT Shakey Hunter and maybe just a bit better. I shot an honest 4 shot 4.5” group the other day at 60 yards with this rest, and groups for me are typically better than “Archery MOA” meaning a little better than 2” @ 20yds, 3” @30 etc. with my hunting set-up. The rest is honestly as accurate as any I have ever used, pick up is as consistent as it gets. and drop must be quite consistent as well.
THE GOOD POINTS:
Very VERY quiet, full containment. Easy set up.
Bowhunters who want a “Drop Away” simply cannot find a rest that hold an arrow better than this one…….sure the Zero Effect make sit very very hard to lose that arrow, but this one makes it basically impossible. Lots and lots of deer have been killed without this feature I know but this is the TRUE draw and forget it rest. You can turn your bow upside down and the arrow is going nowhere.
If you bump a branch while swinging your bow the arrow cannot jump over the launcher.
The quietness and containment are going to make this rest extremely popular!
Loading the rest is a bit of a pain if you are used to just slapping the arrow on and shooting but you quickly adjust. There is plenty of room to fit the largest fixed blade heads through in the forward direction, or you can just load it from the front in a backwards manner.
My Concerns:
I have a few , but for now they are minor……
The ends of the launcher arms themselves are fairly pliable, meaning where they split you can bend them quite easily with your hands, which makes fine tuning them side to side a breeze, but the potential is there to torque one side out of place if you snag something like a tough branch while pulling your bow up. Always check their position for good measure. (I have heard that APA is addressing this with a stiffer material in newer models)
As with any cord actuated rest there is always the potential for failure due to damage. The fact that this rest design puts the point of attachment far out to the side of the rest puts the cord in harms way more than most drop aways. However the design does make the attachment very secure. Just pay attention not to neglect that part of your rest……watch for fraying or wear.
The durability of the launcher spring, and the distance that the back side of the rest sits from the bow are of initial concern and will be watched closely over time for any problems.
Conclusion?
I really like it alot. I have decided to leave this rest on my bow and put it through a season of abuse in the woods. That will be the true test of the design, but for now, The sheer quietness and full containment are going to make this rest very hard to ignore for a hunter. The accuracy is as good as any rest I have shot so I see no reason that a 3D shooter wouldn’t like it either (other than the goofy loading) The person who uses one bow for both can do so with confidence…..it’s an accurate rest for sure. Easy to set up, very adjustable, and a no-brainer when drawing on game. You don’t even need to give your arrow a second thought from your bow hook to full draw.
I am impressed with it, and would recommend anyone looking for a new rest to at least consider it…….It’s not as simple as another popular full containment rest in the Whisker Bisquit, but IMO it has the same advantages with some extra benefits.
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask…..I can also take any additional pics upon request.
Anyone still awake?
Background:
We had this exact rest design on a few of our bows at the ATA show and after beating on them for those 4 days I was impressed with it enough to consider it as an everyday hunting rest…..at least to give it a shot against the TT Shakey hunter I had currently installed on my BowTech Liberty. I will state for the record that I have no affiliation with APA in any way, was not given the rest for free or discount, and was not asked to do any sort of a report. I simply wanted to learn more about it when I actually had time to sit and look at it closer and set one up. I know we will hear more about it this year but I wanted to give you guys a heads up as I don’t think many are familiar with it yet.
Overview:
Actually as the name implies this rest is not a typical “Fall away” in the sense of the term that the rest drops or falls away from beneath the arrow. As the name implies the launcher arms actually swing or “Twist” out of the path of the arrow at release. The design incorporates a complete containment of the arrow shaft at rest, and the attachment point of the launcher itself actually sits above the line of the arrow shaft.
The launcher itself is actuated via a cable connection similar to that found on many of the typical fall away rests on the market……..it seems that it is designed to be used in conjunction with the cable slide although I see no reason why the down cable couldn’t be used other than a bit of an odd angle created at full draw. I have mine as you can see in the pictures attached to the slide itself.
Set Up:
For a cord style rest, this isn’t THE easiest to set-up that I have ever tried because there’s a bit more going on and the design is different than what many are used to, but set-up is not difficult……..The actual cord set-up is as easy as it gets as there is no need to serve anything in (unless you choose to use the cable). Everyday string loop material, scissors and a lighter is all that you need. I first attached the cord to the slide via a simple overhand knot. Pulled tight, clipped and melted into a mushroom to avoid slipping.
The attachment point of the cord to the rest is where this rest shines at set-up…….the cord passes through a hole in the backside of the launcher (The hole is located at the end of the word “Twister” in my pictures) The screw at the top of this hole locks the cord in place while you fine tune cord length for drop rate. Very nice feature because you can get very fine changes in cord length until you have it just right. Once you have it the length that you like, lock down the screw snugly on the cord, trim the excess and melt it down. You are done.
The launcher arms themselves have a built in stop for height that you must set via turning the entire barrel of the launcher itself…..I set mine to be just about straight up and down (slightly backward at rest) to achieve a level launching platform at full draw.
The mounting plate itself has grooves cut into it to further add to the height adjustments by sliding the entire rest up and down via this bracket.
I found on my Liberty that I was limited to the position that you see in the pictures. Anything closer made the launcher arms contact the arrow shelf at full draw prohibiting the swing of the unit.
I am a bit confused as to how anyone could mount the rest any closer to the arrow shelf itself without raising the bracket to an unnatural height to clear the shelf. In any event the rest fit my bow and works very well in the position that I have it mounted, however I was unable to use the included set screws to lock the bracket down further as the holes do not line up with the riser.
Windage adjustments are made via a windage screw that allows you to actually dial the entire launcher barrel in and out, and the launcher itself has 3 settings for spring tension (you can see the 3 small holes in the pics) to allow for different drop rates. I have mine in the middle setting.
Performance:
As you can see in the pictures, as the slide reaches full draw the launcher arms twist upward capturing the arrow and placing it in launch position, at release the slide travels back to rest and the launcher twists back into a vertical position allowing for the maximum clearance through the launcher itself. Maximum clearance is achieved when the arms are at the vertical position at rest.
The launcher while being full containment still has a conventional prong style contact point…..meaning that there are 2 separate sides to the launcher, with a space in between.
While I believe the space is not completely necessary, it gives the shooter the extra assurance that the vanes/feathers are passing through untouched at release. I have had zero contact as determined by spraying the rest, even with my 4” helical feathers on my fat CXL 350 3D shafts. Typical diameter carbon arrows will be of no concern with any type of fletching choice as best as I can tell. The largest diameter shafts with large feathers will come close to contacting the sides but there is still a little room.
It would appear that the rest is designed for a “Cock Vane” down shooting style and that is how I have mine oriented. With smaller diameter carbons the shape of the launcher will allow you any orientation you wish, but I would recommend that you try cock feather down with the large diameter shafts and bigger fletch choices.
They give you enough room for anything but not by much when you get to the larger stuff.
I have been shooting the rest for weeks now and the accuracy has been terrific. On par with the TT Shakey Hunter and maybe just a bit better. I shot an honest 4 shot 4.5” group the other day at 60 yards with this rest, and groups for me are typically better than “Archery MOA” meaning a little better than 2” @ 20yds, 3” @30 etc. with my hunting set-up. The rest is honestly as accurate as any I have ever used, pick up is as consistent as it gets. and drop must be quite consistent as well.
THE GOOD POINTS:
Very VERY quiet, full containment. Easy set up.
Bowhunters who want a “Drop Away” simply cannot find a rest that hold an arrow better than this one…….sure the Zero Effect make sit very very hard to lose that arrow, but this one makes it basically impossible. Lots and lots of deer have been killed without this feature I know but this is the TRUE draw and forget it rest. You can turn your bow upside down and the arrow is going nowhere.
If you bump a branch while swinging your bow the arrow cannot jump over the launcher.
The quietness and containment are going to make this rest extremely popular!
Loading the rest is a bit of a pain if you are used to just slapping the arrow on and shooting but you quickly adjust. There is plenty of room to fit the largest fixed blade heads through in the forward direction, or you can just load it from the front in a backwards manner.
My Concerns:
I have a few , but for now they are minor……
The ends of the launcher arms themselves are fairly pliable, meaning where they split you can bend them quite easily with your hands, which makes fine tuning them side to side a breeze, but the potential is there to torque one side out of place if you snag something like a tough branch while pulling your bow up. Always check their position for good measure. (I have heard that APA is addressing this with a stiffer material in newer models)
As with any cord actuated rest there is always the potential for failure due to damage. The fact that this rest design puts the point of attachment far out to the side of the rest puts the cord in harms way more than most drop aways. However the design does make the attachment very secure. Just pay attention not to neglect that part of your rest……watch for fraying or wear.
The durability of the launcher spring, and the distance that the back side of the rest sits from the bow are of initial concern and will be watched closely over time for any problems.
Conclusion?
I really like it alot. I have decided to leave this rest on my bow and put it through a season of abuse in the woods. That will be the true test of the design, but for now, The sheer quietness and full containment are going to make this rest very hard to ignore for a hunter. The accuracy is as good as any rest I have shot so I see no reason that a 3D shooter wouldn’t like it either (other than the goofy loading) The person who uses one bow for both can do so with confidence…..it’s an accurate rest for sure. Easy to set up, very adjustable, and a no-brainer when drawing on game. You don’t even need to give your arrow a second thought from your bow hook to full draw.
I am impressed with it, and would recommend anyone looking for a new rest to at least consider it…….It’s not as simple as another popular full containment rest in the Whisker Bisquit, but IMO it has the same advantages with some extra benefits.
If anyone has any questions feel free to ask…..I can also take any additional pics upon request.
Anyone still awake?
03-13-2004, 01:14 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
Dang Matt, now I see why you havn't been on much 
And everyone says that my posts are long
As normal, excellent review! If I wanted to tinker with another drop-away, I would check this out, but, the TT kinda turned me away. My QuickTune 3000 is working great!
A few questions...
Without using the set-screw, how "tight" can you get the rest to the riser? Can you move it at all with your hands?
Is the rest heavy? It looks rather large, and I know that alot of guys don't like to have a heavy rest on the side of there bow as it changes the balance of the bow.
Have you tried any other vane/feather configurations? Will a 5" shield cut feather work or will it hit the sides?
Like I said, I have no plans on purchasing a new rest, but I just figured that some other guys would like to know the answers to the questions I just posted!
And everyone says that my posts are long As normal, excellent review! If I wanted to tinker with another drop-away, I would check this out, but, the TT kinda turned me away. My QuickTune 3000 is working great!
A few questions...
Without using the set-screw, how "tight" can you get the rest to the riser? Can you move it at all with your hands?
Is the rest heavy? It looks rather large, and I know that alot of guys don't like to have a heavy rest on the side of there bow as it changes the balance of the bow.
Have you tried any other vane/feather configurations? Will a 5" shield cut feather work or will it hit the sides?
Like I said, I have no plans on purchasing a new rest, but I just figured that some other guys would like to know the answers to the questions I just posted!
03-13-2004, 02:19 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crosby TX USA
Posts: 2,599
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
I was kinda wondering about the adjustability of the "up time".
Is it easy to set it to stay up for the optimal 2+" of arrow travel required for the unlevel knock travel bows?
Is it easy to set it to stay up for the optimal 2+" of arrow travel required for the unlevel knock travel bows?
03-13-2004, 02:54 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
Well Matt you just made my decision about a rest a lot easier. This one will be on the new Phoenix.
Thank you for a great review.
One thing you forgot to mention though. What does it cost?
Thank you for a great review.
One thing you forgot to mention though. What does it cost?
03-14-2004, 06:12 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Crosby TX USA
Posts: 2,599
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
Thanks for the picks, AT full draw I can see the arrows pivot point is very close to the pivot point of the grip, that's a good place to have it imho. (it could be worse)
03-14-2004, 06:51 AM
#7
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Holland
Posts: 182
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
Thanks Matt. This looks a very good thing for me.
One question tho....
Since the whole arrow has the pass trough that 'hole'....would it not interfere the arrow flight?
Did you test it with powder or dry shampoo ?
I understand that it will not if you keep your bow rock steady, but unfortunally i am not a machine....
One question tho....
Since the whole arrow has the pass trough that 'hole'....would it not interfere the arrow flight?
Did you test it with powder or dry shampoo ?
I understand that it will not if you keep your bow rock steady, but unfortunally i am not a machine....
03-14-2004, 09:53 AM
#8
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: .. NH USA
Posts: 970
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
We tested the APA rests on the Merlins at the show also-- Nibal was nice enough to offer to install a few of them for us to try and evaluate.
Personally, I do not care for fallaways as a rule and the twister is no exception, tho I do like other APA rests. I think there is far too much vibration coming from the tips of the wire loop that are not connected together during the shot on both this one and the regular twister, and you can feel it during the shot. For some reason the new sideloader standard model isn't anywhere near as bad as the twister when it comes to this, probably because it is a heavier design and the rest area where the arrow itself sits and passes is solid. Of the two, I would definately opt for the sideloader because of the lesser vibration and the fact that loading it is a snap and far easier than the twister. I think they did well with that one, but the twister is like a tuning fork to me even with the rubber on it, and it's a pain to load.. JMHO, Pinwheel 12
Personally, I do not care for fallaways as a rule and the twister is no exception, tho I do like other APA rests. I think there is far too much vibration coming from the tips of the wire loop that are not connected together during the shot on both this one and the regular twister, and you can feel it during the shot. For some reason the new sideloader standard model isn't anywhere near as bad as the twister when it comes to this, probably because it is a heavier design and the rest area where the arrow itself sits and passes is solid. Of the two, I would definately opt for the sideloader because of the lesser vibration and the fact that loading it is a snap and far easier than the twister. I think they did well with that one, but the twister is like a tuning fork to me even with the rubber on it, and it's a pain to load.. JMHO, Pinwheel 12
03-14-2004, 11:07 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: ** APA Ultimate "TWISTER" (initial review) PICS **
I think there is far too much vibration coming from the tips of the wire loop that are not connected together during the shot on both this one and the regular twister, and you can feel it during the shot.
I am not getting that vibration that you are talking about? When I read your respose I went into the basement and took a small rubber band and wrapped the ends tight together to keep them from moving at all. (Accuracy was a little [:-]) but I couldn't feel any difference on my Liberty? I took it off and again, no difference and no vibration.
I too am just getting to know the design and am like you.......looking for a reason why I should or shouldn't like something. I do have the launchers completely wrapped in moleskin.
I did hear from somewhere (I can't remeber now who said it?) but supposedly APA is addressing the stiffness/thickness of the TWister's launcher probably to address what you found and what I did with respect to being able to bend them.
A few questions...
Without using the set-screw, how "tight" can you get the rest to the riser? Can you move it at all with your hands?
Is the rest heavy? It looks rather large, and I know that alot of guys don't like to have a heavy rest on the side of there bow as it changes the balance of the bow.
Have you tried any other vane/feather configurations? Will a 5" shield cut feather work or will it hit the sides?
Without using the set-screw, how "tight" can you get the rest to the riser? Can you move it at all with your hands?
Is the rest heavy? It looks rather large, and I know that alot of guys don't like to have a heavy rest on the side of there bow as it changes the balance of the bow.
Have you tried any other vane/feather configurations? Will a 5" shield cut feather work or will it hit the sides?
* I have the rest as tight as I can get it.......The only thing that bothers me is that I had to use the furthest mounting point which provides the most leverage to loosen the rest if it is bumped hard. I rapped on it quite a bit and couldn't get it to move. The mounting plate is fairly thin which I think helps. I generally don't like to jam set screws into the riser for resale purposes anyway, so my only real concern is the outer edge attachment point.
* Not heavy at all.......I think it may be lighter than my TT? I didn't weight it but I didn't notice any out of the ordinary weight.
* I have tried 3", 1.3" and 4" vanes on standard ICS style carbons (CX,ACC, Carbon Impact), and 4" helical feathers on my CXL fatter shaft carbons. No contact, but with the 4" feathers and those fat shafts there is very little room to play. It's tight. 5" shield cut on a big fat aluminum is gonna be close.
I think anything on an smaller diameter shaft will be fine for sure. Axis shafts would be perfect.
Is it easy to set it to stay up for the optimal 2+" of arrow travel required for the unlevel knock travel bows?
Tuning for drop time is a breeze......that tuning screw makes it almost fun to play with different combinations. Because of the slide travel characteristics of my Liberty I have mine set this way: The rest hits its highest point with about 3/4" of arrow left to go........BUT when letting down the launcher supports the arrow for roughly 3.5-4" of travel before twisting out of the way. Arrow flight is terrific.
You also have 3 choices for the spring to provide more or less tension based upon how you want the rest to twist away.
I was just wondering if you have paper-tuned that rest, or shot broadheads with it?
No I haven't with respect to either......I haven't settled on a shaft yet for next bowseason, so for the moment everything has been set to eyeball. Flight and groups are great and I'm getting no contact. That's all I'm concerned with until I have my hunting shafts ready, when I have them and serious practice is in the works I will tune carefully to whatever shafts I settle on.
Since the whole arrow has the pass trough that 'hole'....would it not interfere the arrow flight?
Did you test it with powder or dry shampoo ?
Did you test it with powder or dry shampoo ?
I did use foot spray (powder) for all the shafts I listed above with no contact........that is shooting cock feather down as I'm sure is intended for this rest. The hole seems a bit tight in the pictures, but looking from straight on its pretty large. My only concern would be very large diameter shafts with the largest fletch choices.
As with any rest that you would shoot through, special attention should be given to proper centershot and arrow spine.