Tuning fixed blades ??
02-13-2004, 11:55 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,434
Tuning fixed blades ??
I'm not shooting them currently, but have some questions with all this tuning talk !!
Is there a speed that makes fixed blades unmanagable to accuratly tune for ? Bruce Barrie says 260's ......tops for fixed blades !! What do you guys think ?
And if your establishing your bows tune........does it matter what size fixed blade your shooting ?
Seems like the newer small cut models fly somewhat like a mechanical.......is getting a good group tune with them the same as with a 1 1/8 " or 1 1/4" broadhead ?
Is there a place to draw a line with fixed blades or should a skilled archer able to tune a Muzzy(just an example) to shoot dead on with field tips at 300+ fps ??? Is your bow out of tune if you can't ??
Is there a speed that makes fixed blades unmanagable to accuratly tune for ? Bruce Barrie says 260's ......tops for fixed blades !! What do you guys think ?
And if your establishing your bows tune........does it matter what size fixed blade your shooting ?
Seems like the newer small cut models fly somewhat like a mechanical.......is getting a good group tune with them the same as with a 1 1/8 " or 1 1/4" broadhead ?
Is there a place to draw a line with fixed blades or should a skilled archer able to tune a Muzzy(just an example) to shoot dead on with field tips at 300+ fps ??? Is your bow out of tune if you can't ??
02-13-2004, 01:02 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
CBM.
Make sure your arrows spin true with fixed blades.
I have heard the same thing about fixed blades and speed.
My BK is shooting a 314gr arrow at 312fps and the muzzy 75gr heads fly like darts as of yet I have not tried the 100grers I have but will be when I get some time off work.
Will most likely use them on my 400gr arrows as thats what I will be using for hunting but even then the BK will be doing 280fps.
Make sure your arrows spin true with fixed blades.
I have heard the same thing about fixed blades and speed.
My BK is shooting a 314gr arrow at 312fps and the muzzy 75gr heads fly like darts as of yet I have not tried the 100grers I have but will be when I get some time off work.
Will most likely use them on my 400gr arrows as thats what I will be using for hunting but even then the BK will be doing 280fps.
02-13-2004, 01:34 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
I shoot 275 fps and with the slick trick 125's they fly exactly where my FP's do. I shot the slick tricks last weekend for the first time after only screwing them on and spin testing them and WOW was I surprised. Excelent flight.
There is no reason that you could not get fixed blade heads to fly just as well as mechanicals if your bow is properly tuned and you choose the right head for your arrow spine. Keeping in mind that smaller (not necessarily smaller cutting diameter) more compact heads will usually give better flight than heads with very large, long blades.
There is no reason that you could not get fixed blade heads to fly just as well as mechanicals if your bow is properly tuned and you choose the right head for your arrow spine. Keeping in mind that smaller (not necessarily smaller cutting diameter) more compact heads will usually give better flight than heads with very large, long blades.
02-13-2004, 02:00 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,434
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
Guys ...thanks for the posts !! I am actually asking a "bigger" question !
I know more about tuning than any of my friends..............but compared to a lot of guys on here.......it seems I don't know squat !! Now that I think I'm getting some of this.........I have to hear about "false" tune !!! [&o]
If I get a bow to paper tune......establish my arrows are slightly overspined.......shoot 1" groups at 20 yrds.....3" groups at 45 yrds...........and maintain 6-8" groups at 65-70 yrds !!
I screw on a set of Muzzy's 1 1/8" cut and shoot a tight group at 20 yrds a little left and a few inches low.............maintain these results all the way out to 50 yrds! Good groups......just low and left !!
Put on some Wasp boss bullets 1" cut and hit dead on with my FP at 20 yrds..........30 yrds an inch left........50 yrds 2-2.5" left !!
Put on Spitfires........dead on w/ FP !!! Is my bow out of tune ???
Say a bow shooting 300+ fps shoots a sub-par group at 20 yrds with a 1 1/4" broadhead ! So if they don't group good.........should you go to a 1" cut ??? If they don't group good.........should you go to an exapandable ???
Or was your bow not tuned correctly with the 1 1/4" ?? How in the !@#$! do you figure all this out ??
I know more about tuning than any of my friends..............but compared to a lot of guys on here.......it seems I don't know squat !! Now that I think I'm getting some of this.........I have to hear about "false" tune !!! [&o]
If I get a bow to paper tune......establish my arrows are slightly overspined.......shoot 1" groups at 20 yrds.....3" groups at 45 yrds...........and maintain 6-8" groups at 65-70 yrds !!
I screw on a set of Muzzy's 1 1/8" cut and shoot a tight group at 20 yrds a little left and a few inches low.............maintain these results all the way out to 50 yrds! Good groups......just low and left !!
Put on some Wasp boss bullets 1" cut and hit dead on with my FP at 20 yrds..........30 yrds an inch left........50 yrds 2-2.5" left !!
Put on Spitfires........dead on w/ FP !!! Is my bow out of tune ???
Say a bow shooting 300+ fps shoots a sub-par group at 20 yrds with a 1 1/4" broadhead ! So if they don't group good.........should you go to a 1" cut ??? If they don't group good.........should you go to an exapandable ???
Or was your bow not tuned correctly with the 1 1/4" ?? How in the !@#$! do you figure all this out ??
02-13-2004, 06:11 PM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
Mr. Barrie ought to stop by and visit me sometime. I not only totally disagree with him, if he made that statement, but I would quickly prove him wrong.
Roland: Check this out. I went out and grabbed one of Sean's(my son) arrows since I knew my 71# bow would shoot them over 300 fps. Keep in mind that his arrow is 6 spines off what I normally shoot in my bow. I put it through the chrono at almost 310 fps; and, it punched a beautiful bullet hole through the paper. I guess the bow is tuned right and doesn't have one of those 'false tunes'.
Anyhow, I put a used Muzzy 3 blade 100 on it and proceeded to the broadhead range. At 310 fps with a fixed (used) broadhead, shooting 20 yards, 3 arrows in a 1" circle in the 'X' ring. And you know me, Roland, I invite anyone by to see me demonstrate this in person to verify.
Good shooting.
Roland: Check this out. I went out and grabbed one of Sean's(my son) arrows since I knew my 71# bow would shoot them over 300 fps. Keep in mind that his arrow is 6 spines off what I normally shoot in my bow. I put it through the chrono at almost 310 fps; and, it punched a beautiful bullet hole through the paper. I guess the bow is tuned right and doesn't have one of those 'false tunes'.
Anyhow, I put a used Muzzy 3 blade 100 on it and proceeded to the broadhead range. At 310 fps with a fixed (used) broadhead, shooting 20 yards, 3 arrows in a 1" circle in the 'X' ring. And you know me, Roland, I invite anyone by to see me demonstrate this in person to verify.
Good shooting.
02-13-2004, 06:32 PM
#8
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SC USA
Posts: 1,434
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
Len, Bruce's comments were on the Rocky Mnt website last time I checked !!
I hope I haven't come off wrong.........but this is a serious question for me !! From what your saying.........a bow can be tuned at any current speed to shoot tight groups with fixed blades.........be it 1 1/4" ....1 1/8"...7/8" whatever !!
Do the groups have to match FP's or just group tight ?
I am really trying to figure out if I am a victim of false tune ?? I'm just trying to do the best I can with what little bit I know !!
Like I say.....I am ahead of the guys I know......how can someone tell if their not tuned right if your shooting good ? And if your shooting good with mechanicals and have no porpoising or visible arrow flight problems ?
Read the WB thread.........I get it ..........easy to ask somewhere like this I guess !! I don't suppose I would lay out my strong points for building commercial grade cabinets for the masses either !!
I hope I haven't come off wrong.........but this is a serious question for me !! From what your saying.........a bow can be tuned at any current speed to shoot tight groups with fixed blades.........be it 1 1/4" ....1 1/8"...7/8" whatever !!
Do the groups have to match FP's or just group tight ?
I am really trying to figure out if I am a victim of false tune ?? I'm just trying to do the best I can with what little bit I know !!
Like I say.....I am ahead of the guys I know......how can someone tell if their not tuned right if your shooting good ? And if your shooting good with mechanicals and have no porpoising or visible arrow flight problems ?
Read the WB thread.........I get it ..........easy to ask somewhere like this I guess !! I don't suppose I would lay out my strong points for building commercial grade cabinets for the masses either !!
02-13-2004, 06:49 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
The best approach, once you think you've got a good tune, is to thoroughly spin check and paper tune ALL your arrows. The paper tune will really show you not only what your arrow is doing, but will show you how consistent your form may be. Remember, tune the bow, tune the arrow, and tune the archer (The Tuning Trilogy).
It is only when you get all these things in-sync that you can achieve the results that I get. Many will tell you that this and that can't be done; but, I beg to differ and can back up whatever I print. I've invited many on this and other forums to witness some of the bold statements I've made about archery; and, many have come to witness it. You're invited anytime.
Once you're sure the 'Trilogy' is the best you can accomplish, attempt to get the BHs and FTs to hit in the same hole. This IS possible and will result in the best tune I've ever seen.
I hope I explained it well enough. I'm a little pi**ed at another thread and a specific individual. Sorry.[:@]
Good luck.
It is only when you get all these things in-sync that you can achieve the results that I get. Many will tell you that this and that can't be done; but, I beg to differ and can back up whatever I print. I've invited many on this and other forums to witness some of the bold statements I've made about archery; and, many have come to witness it. You're invited anytime.
Once you're sure the 'Trilogy' is the best you can accomplish, attempt to get the BHs and FTs to hit in the same hole. This IS possible and will result in the best tune I've ever seen.
I hope I explained it well enough. I'm a little pi**ed at another thread and a specific individual. Sorry.[:@]
Good luck.
02-14-2004, 06:07 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vinton VA
Posts: 2,978
RE: Tuning fixed blades ??
I have been able to get some pretty big broadheads to shoot well at speeds over 260. I personaly don't feel that broadheads have to hit to the same point of aim as fixed blade heads, but it is nice. I saw that Len spoke about paper tuning with each arrow. I do this for every one of my hunting arrows. I shoot each possible hunting arrrow with a field point first. making sure I get proper results at 3,8 and 15'. I then attached my broadhads, spin test each one to make sure I don't have any wobble and then and go to the range. Most often by taking these steps I will have 8 to 10 arrows that shoot broadheads well. This is out of a dozen aluminum shafts. With the lower grade carbons it shrinks to 6 to 7 arrows, and with the better grade carbons and Acc's it moves back to the 8 to 10 range. For a simple look at broadhead tuning check out my site www.broadheadtests.com and go to the tuning section. It should help some as well.