Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
02-13-2002, 05:53 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Frank......well now that your Hoyts "Suck", and my Patriot aint all it's cracked up to be........we only have one choice left, suicide or Mathews! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-13-2002, 06:22 PM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
You are right Matt. Since the former isn't an option I guess I should look at the latter. What is their new flagship bow called now? The Lucinda? The Lycos? Seriously, I forgot....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-13-2002, 06:36 PM
#24
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
I think their new ones are the "Ironic" and the.......uh??......."Leperacy" or something like that? No wait, that's what you get from HOLDING one of those bows!
Ahh......I forget myself.
Ahh......I forget myself.
02-13-2002, 08:00 PM
#25
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In a Tarpon Boat
Posts: 846
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Frank,
Just get it over with and order an Accu-Riser. Then you won't need to make comparisons because you will have the best.
Best limbs, riser, cams, finish, bushings, axles etc.
It's only around $200.00 more than the Patriot.
What's another $200.00 ? Big deal.
You've got most of the money ready.
Be like Mike, just do it, lol.
Sag.
Just get it over with and order an Accu-Riser. Then you won't need to make comparisons because you will have the best.
Best limbs, riser, cams, finish, bushings, axles etc.
It's only around $200.00 more than the Patriot.
What's another $200.00 ? Big deal.
You've got most of the money ready.
Be like Mike, just do it, lol.
Sag.
02-13-2002, 08:48 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Antler,
Absolutely. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bowtech's out of the box have more shock and recoil than many other bows. However I think the key phrase here is "out of the box". Mind you, I'm not arguing, but just offering an alternate viewpoint that is probably a bit more "realistic", if you will.
I'm assuming that you shot a bare bow , but this applies to any higher performance bow.
The comparison to the CyberTec may not be quite fair. Tec riser bows come standard w/ LimbSavers. As most of us know Limbsavers can make quite a difference in noise/recoil/vibration. While the BT models do have the ST pockets, they are not as effective as LS..they merely "take off the edge". Shooting a Tec w/out LS would be a better comparison.
In the case of the Mathew models, you are quite right: out of the box the Q series bows are quieter, have less recoil and less shock.
However when we consider a full set-up(especially for hunting) the "gap" is narrowed significantly. Products like Limbsavers, leeches, and good Stabilizers are more effective when they have "more to work with". If the noise or shock or recoil is not that high, they make little difference. The Q series bows are a perfect example: Out of the box my Q2 is very quiet, and recoil/vibe free. When I added LS, Leeches, and A Sorbotek Stabilizer, the noise and recoi/shock reduction was very minimal..maybe not even worth it.
However, when adding LS, leeches, and a Gel stabilizer to my MM, or my ES, the difference is significant since the products have "something to work with".
Now the real question we must ask is...does it matter how it shoots off the shelf for a test through a chrono? Or does it matter how it shoots set-up the way we will hunt and/or shoot 3D with it week-in and week-out?
I would think for most of us, it's the latter.
First impressions are great, but they do not always tell the whole truth (and why I divorced my first wife!! hee hee).
Also as I have stated before, when comparing FPS to FPS(instead of grains per LB to grains per LB) the difference grows even smaller.
I'm fairly sensitive to shock as well..I have several injuries from when I used to powerlift/bodybuild, including back, bicep, and elbow injuries. I have not found BT models when set-up to aggravate me more than any other bow I currently own including my HavocTec and Q2.
Again, I'm not trying to "discredit" you, or dismiss your opinion, because you are correct. The magnitude of the "problem" however is not nearly as significant when properly addressed.
If would be so kind as to give me your home address, I have a little..uhm...errr. PRESENT to send you..don't worry about the ticking sound..it's just a..Sportsmans watch? Yeah..a Sportsmans Watch!!
JeffB
Absolutely. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bowtech's out of the box have more shock and recoil than many other bows. However I think the key phrase here is "out of the box". Mind you, I'm not arguing, but just offering an alternate viewpoint that is probably a bit more "realistic", if you will.
I'm assuming that you shot a bare bow , but this applies to any higher performance bow.
The comparison to the CyberTec may not be quite fair. Tec riser bows come standard w/ LimbSavers. As most of us know Limbsavers can make quite a difference in noise/recoil/vibration. While the BT models do have the ST pockets, they are not as effective as LS..they merely "take off the edge". Shooting a Tec w/out LS would be a better comparison.
In the case of the Mathew models, you are quite right: out of the box the Q series bows are quieter, have less recoil and less shock.
However when we consider a full set-up(especially for hunting) the "gap" is narrowed significantly. Products like Limbsavers, leeches, and good Stabilizers are more effective when they have "more to work with". If the noise or shock or recoil is not that high, they make little difference. The Q series bows are a perfect example: Out of the box my Q2 is very quiet, and recoil/vibe free. When I added LS, Leeches, and A Sorbotek Stabilizer, the noise and recoi/shock reduction was very minimal..maybe not even worth it.
However, when adding LS, leeches, and a Gel stabilizer to my MM, or my ES, the difference is significant since the products have "something to work with".
Now the real question we must ask is...does it matter how it shoots off the shelf for a test through a chrono? Or does it matter how it shoots set-up the way we will hunt and/or shoot 3D with it week-in and week-out?
I would think for most of us, it's the latter.
First impressions are great, but they do not always tell the whole truth (and why I divorced my first wife!! hee hee).
Also as I have stated before, when comparing FPS to FPS(instead of grains per LB to grains per LB) the difference grows even smaller.
I'm fairly sensitive to shock as well..I have several injuries from when I used to powerlift/bodybuild, including back, bicep, and elbow injuries. I have not found BT models when set-up to aggravate me more than any other bow I currently own including my HavocTec and Q2.
Again, I'm not trying to "discredit" you, or dismiss your opinion, because you are correct. The magnitude of the "problem" however is not nearly as significant when properly addressed.
If would be so kind as to give me your home address, I have a little..uhm...errr. PRESENT to send you..don't worry about the ticking sound..it's just a..Sportsmans watch? Yeah..a Sportsmans Watch!!
JeffB
02-13-2002, 09:22 PM
#27
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Whew!!! Jeff to the rescue!! I can still shoot my BowTechs with pride!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I was going to get into all of that bow comparison stuff honest, but I didn't have the energy tonight.....besides you do it so well.(and it's your post!)
I was going to get into all of that bow comparison stuff honest, but I didn't have the energy tonight.....besides you do it so well.(and it's your post!)
02-13-2002, 11:30 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Heaven IA USA
Posts: 2,597
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Hehe I didn't mean to cause such an upheaval in BowTech cyber space.
Jeff, worry not! No offense taken. In fact I agree with your assessment of the vibration reduction process and the BowTech line. If I would have had more time to put my original post together I would have pointed out similar facts as to what you mentioned.
While you feel it isn't entirely fair to compare the BowTech to a Tech series or a Q series it is almost unavoidable. That is what the Companies are offering in the way of their top of the line bows just like BowTech. One's strength "out of the box" is smooth stealth and the others is blistering speed.
I would love to shoot a fully loaded Patriot. No doubt it would feel better than the bare bow, but I am not willing to spend $700.00 to see if the shock would be tamed enough for my liking. While I am willing to give the Patriot the benefit of the doubt, from past experience I would say the hand shock would still be at an unacceptable level for me. Again that is just a personal thing with me and I understand entirely why someone else would have a totally different opinion.
...A watch eh...How did you know I needed a watch? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jeff, worry not! No offense taken. In fact I agree with your assessment of the vibration reduction process and the BowTech line. If I would have had more time to put my original post together I would have pointed out similar facts as to what you mentioned.
While you feel it isn't entirely fair to compare the BowTech to a Tech series or a Q series it is almost unavoidable. That is what the Companies are offering in the way of their top of the line bows just like BowTech. One's strength "out of the box" is smooth stealth and the others is blistering speed.
I would love to shoot a fully loaded Patriot. No doubt it would feel better than the bare bow, but I am not willing to spend $700.00 to see if the shock would be tamed enough for my liking. While I am willing to give the Patriot the benefit of the doubt, from past experience I would say the hand shock would still be at an unacceptable level for me. Again that is just a personal thing with me and I understand entirely why someone else would have a totally different opinion.
...A watch eh...How did you know I needed a watch? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-14-2002, 04:57 AM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
Sag,
You are soooo right. Maybe I should take the plunge and buy the most expensive bow on the planet.....but then I wouldn't have the Bowtech speed....which is what this is all really about...isn't it?......the Extra speed with close to all of same attributes of the other "top of the line" bows....at least that is the picture that was painted for me....
At this point it doesn't matter for me. My Havoctec is almost gone and I have enough moolla to buy a Leprosy, another Hocker-soundTec, or one of the BowTECh's..<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jeff,
Two things. Why is it that you vehemently defend Bowtechs? (A sincere question)
Two, as for the limbsavers on the Hoyts. A fair comparison if the limbsavers were to be removed would also be to remove the sand from the sandtrap limb pockets on the B-Techers. The new TEC risers were designed to decrease weight while adding stiffness to the riser. The vibration/noise reduction component is an added benefit.
Ofcourse, if you took the limbsavers off of a TEC bow then you would have to knock the price down another $25....or do folks forget that those limbsavers are included in the price of the bow...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/14/2002 07:26:26
You are soooo right. Maybe I should take the plunge and buy the most expensive bow on the planet.....but then I wouldn't have the Bowtech speed....which is what this is all really about...isn't it?......the Extra speed with close to all of same attributes of the other "top of the line" bows....at least that is the picture that was painted for me...
.At this point it doesn't matter for me. My Havoctec is almost gone and I have enough moolla to buy a Leprosy, another Hocker-soundTec, or one of the BowTECh's..<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jeff,
Two things. Why is it that you vehemently defend Bowtechs? (A sincere question)
Two, as for the limbsavers on the Hoyts. A fair comparison if the limbsavers were to be removed would also be to remove the sand from the sandtrap limb pockets on the B-Techers. The new TEC risers were designed to decrease weight while adding stiffness to the riser. The vibration/noise reduction component is an added benefit.
Ofcourse, if you took the limbsavers off of a TEC bow then you would have to knock the price down another $25....or do folks forget that those limbsavers are included in the price of the bow...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - PABowhntr on 02/14/2002 07:26:26
02-14-2002, 05:44 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NW Ohio USA
Posts: 1,532
RE: Shot me one of them new fangled Paytreeuts!
I'm not real sure what kind of set up was on the Patriot you shot but if you say a Patriot has a lot of hand shock I have to disagree. I just had a couple hundred people shoot one last weekend at the Mich Deer and Turkey Spectacular and not one person thought it had any hand shock. The only thing that they would say is that they could feel a little string twang after the shot because this was shot as a bare bow. The Patriots got shot a BUNCH at the AMO Show and I only heard of one person that said this bow had a buzz in the grip? I haven't shot a lot of other brand bows for the last couple years but this bow is by far the most shock free bow I've shot to date.