Rangeball

Jeff, does that include the '03 Darton Magnum and Avalanche extreme? I am highly interested in the AE, but can find only a few folks that have actually shot the bow. One guy on AT says it's a dream to shoot, no recoil/noise and just sits in your hand...

34 1/4 ATA, 7.25" brace with the CPS Extreme cam, IBO of 308...

Shoot one at the show for me, will ya?

JeffB

I shot the magnum 33 and IMO it was as bad or worse than the Mavericks for shock/recoil/noise. Have not shot the Mag Extreme. I ran about a dozen arrows through the Avalanche w/ full sims outfit (leeches, limbsavers, stabilizer)..definite improvement but for me personally it was not enough of an impovement to get me to shell out the $. It felt like my PSE Enforcer i.e. still had a little thump & bump and that characteristic Darton "plock" sound.

Nicely built bow though, as all Dartons are.

Roland from Calif.

I'm with JeffB. I've been a diehard Darton shooter since they developed the hybrid in 96. That being said the bow really made to much noise to be able to hunt deer in the west. noise really starts to be an issue when your shots are in the 35 to 40 yard range. Last year I had an opportunity to pick up a used 03 Cybertec and shoot both bows (Maverick vs Cybertec) head to head. In a word no comparison the Cybertec was deadly quiet. I have a couple of blacktails in the freezer because of it. I even had the NV system on the Maverick and it still wasn't close. As Jeff stated Darton's are well built and I never had any problems with them, just needed something that wasn't as noisy.

Straightarrow

I definitely think it took a combination of advertising and a bow that was pleasant to shoot. Hoyt succeeded first in the total package. Merlin is at least equal, but they haven't yet, let anyone in on their secret. Martin and Champion are following suit as I'm sure others will. I think the hybrids would have succeeded within the next few years anyway, but witout a doubt, Hoyt got the ball rolling.

pdq 5oh

I have to agree with Jeff.[:@] The biggest thing Hoyt did to advance the hybrid cams was make a bow that was quiet and soft shooting using them.

Jerry/Pa

Hoyt still carries a lot of wieght within the industary even though they're not the Hoyt of years past. They did improved on Dartons system but I think the solo system had flaws and the hybrid cam was the next step of improvement for the solo's. It took Hoyts engineering, mass avdertizing and peoples trust in there name to do what Darton couldn't. Like Straightarrow said it would have happened eventually.

Jeff, I found that the NV Dampener system along with Limb Savers and a good stabilizer tamed down my Mav. A heavier arrow(2314) also helped. It still not as smooth as the Omega cam but a whole lot nicer to shoot. JERRY

JOE PA

I think the responses by others, especially Jeff's, really nailed it. Even though certain aspects of Hoyt's Cam.5 are not necessarily better, or even as good as the CPS, Hoyt did several important things.

1. A major player in hunting, 3D, and target bows decided to make ALL of their lineup with Cam.5.

2. They advertised very effectively, if perhaps overstating the virtues of their system somewhat. (Sound familiar?)

3. As stated earlier, they produced a hybrid that was smooth and quiet to shoot. Darton never seemed to focus on recoil/noise reduction as a design element for the CPS. Hoyt did.

Some other hybrids, particularly the Newberry, look like they have designed a hybrid system to be optimized in many respects. The Champion Scorpion looks pretty good too. If I hadn't just gotten a very nice 2 cam (wheel) bow that I like very much, I would probably take a good look at some of these new bows.

muzzyman88

I totally agree. Yes, I'm partial to Hoyt. But that because I've owned quite a few of there bows and they have all been excellent quality and shot very well.

Hoyt could probably come out with a wheely bow and push it like they do the C.5 and it would sell well for them. I think its simply that fact that over the years, Hoyt has produced bows that were excellent and people were able to shoot them well. This builds confidence in the industry and no one expects to see a sub par bow from them. Thus, no one has a problem buying a bow from them.

Pinwheel 12

There has been more than one company in recent years working on the hybrid design, long before Hoyt released their version last year. It is no secret in the industry that there is simply much more room to move within this design than within the conventional solocam, therefore future improvements to the design will be much more easily designed and acheived.

I do give Hoyt a bundle of credit for pushing the hybrid into the limelight, but there is no doubt in my mind that it would've come anyway within a year or two---maybe not by Darton or Merlin themselves, but with so many other companies now coming onto the bandwagon, Martin, Champion, Kodiak, Newberry, etc etc I truly beleive that the design has finally caught hold and that this is the next step forward in the evolution of cam design. IMO the solos will continue to fade over time as an obsolete entity because there is now a much better mousetrap available. That is also IMHO why you saw the "running scared, time to smash Hoyt" advertising banter in 2003 from certain companies---they know the deal as well and lost around 25-30% in sales in 2003 from what I understand, nevemind what will happen in 2004.. Even dual cams do not offer all of the attributes that Hybrids do IMHO. In a nutshell, they(hybrids) offer the best combination of attributes of both twins and solos-- all in one package, and are the easiest bows to tune and shoot I've ever experienced in over 30+ years in this sport and industry-- with little recoil, vibration, and handshock to boot. Having been a staunch twin cam fan for many years now, this is saying something and it took me a long time to become convinced and say so. I now shoot the Merlin Omega hybrid exclusively for all applications, and feel there is no finer hybrid system currently available anywhere. (Each bow comes complete with simple tuning instructions! Almost impossible to screw it up![8D])

I truly believe this is a good thing for the industry overall---people are hungry for new concepts, and we must retaiin interest and excitement within the industry for it to prosper. I think that many companies are now finally getting off their duffs and back into the R&D depts, and we as archers will certainly benefit from this increased activity over the next few years. JMHO, Pinwheel 12

PABowhntr

'bout time. I have been waiting for your comments for over a day...

So, after reading all of the above, my next question is how long do you think it will be before we see some hybrids from companies such as PSE, Browning (yeah, I know they are basically one and the same), etc..? Or will we?