I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
02-05-2002, 03:00 PM
#31
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Yeah Frank!?
What about it?.....I know it isn't the Patriot, but the Extreme Solo fits that criteria to a "T"
Actually Jeff is probably being a bit conservative speed wise......I have yet to shoot one that didn't fall into at least the middle of that advertised speed "range".(My "Pro38" is at the high end)
Since the Extreme Solo at 7" Brace Height is rated at 311-319 at 30".....you can pretty much just up those numbers to 321-329fps....middle of the road say 324-325fps. And with the way you like to shoot with a light string you aren't going to lose much speed.....I'd expect right around 320 with that 31" draw of yours.
Even if you back it down to 65# you'd still be doing over 310 at IBO arrow weight.
Even better......You could expect almost the same numbers from the "Pro38" single cam with the same 7" brace height......it's not much longer either when you think about it, (37.3"ATA) equals about 1" longer at either end than your "self imposed" limits.....and it will be much smoother, quiter and more vibration and recoil free than the Extreme Solo. GREAT BOW, and I bet you'd love it......but you have this "little bow complex" thing going on which puts a great many wonderful bows out of your range.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Heck the "Pro 38" is only 1.75" longer on each end than the Patriot!.....hold the 2 side by side and it isn't much. It's not going to quite as recoil free as the Patriot, but it's second in line and a terrific bow.
Remember the days when a 36-37" bow was SHORT!?......(and your 6'4 for cryin out loud.)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Oh well.......I guess I'll just stay 10fps faster.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ahh.....(this is edited cause you beat me to the button!)
Actually the 2002 Extreme Solo "Option 2 " IS 7"......and trust me a PSE this bow is not!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Still say you'd really like the "Pro38".....you saying you can't handle a 7" brace height on the single or a 6.8" on the dual??.....I know a dealer who has (3) left over Pro38 dual cams! I can e-mail you the info and price!.......just think Frank.......330's at 65#!? Sounds pretty good huh? and 348-350 at 70#?
I guess you don't really need 93+ ft lbs of KE anyway to kill a deer right??......that would be terrible for trying to "Cut em' in Half" huh?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Keep shooting those 1 1/8" heads and your little bows......I'll keep using my set-ups to field dress my deer for me.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/05/2002 16:10:56
What about it?.....I know it isn't the Patriot, but the Extreme Solo fits that criteria to a "T"
Actually Jeff is probably being a bit conservative speed wise......I have yet to shoot one that didn't fall into at least the middle of that advertised speed "range".(My "Pro38" is at the high end)
Since the Extreme Solo at 7" Brace Height is rated at 311-319 at 30".....you can pretty much just up those numbers to 321-329fps....middle of the road say 324-325fps. And with the way you like to shoot with a light string you aren't going to lose much speed.....I'd expect right around 320 with that 31" draw of yours.
Even if you back it down to 65# you'd still be doing over 310 at IBO arrow weight.
Even better......You could expect almost the same numbers from the "Pro38" single cam with the same 7" brace height......it's not much longer either when you think about it, (37.3"ATA) equals about 1" longer at either end than your "self imposed" limits.....and it will be much smoother, quiter and more vibration and recoil free than the Extreme Solo. GREAT BOW, and I bet you'd love it......but you have this "little bow complex" thing going on which puts a great many wonderful bows out of your range.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Heck the "Pro 38" is only 1.75" longer on each end than the Patriot!.....hold the 2 side by side and it isn't much. It's not going to quite as recoil free as the Patriot, but it's second in line and a terrific bow.
Remember the days when a 36-37" bow was SHORT!?......(and your 6'4 for cryin out loud.)<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Oh well.......I guess I'll just stay 10fps faster.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Ahh.....(this is edited cause you beat me to the button!)
Actually the 2002 Extreme Solo "Option 2 " IS 7"......and trust me a PSE this bow is not!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Still say you'd really like the "Pro38".....you saying you can't handle a 7" brace height on the single or a 6.8" on the dual??.....I know a dealer who has (3) left over Pro38 dual cams! I can e-mail you the info and price!.......just think Frank.......330's at 65#!? Sounds pretty good huh? and 348-350 at 70#?
I guess you don't really need 93+ ft lbs of KE anyway to kill a deer right??......that would be terrible for trying to "Cut em' in Half" huh?<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Keep shooting those 1 1/8" heads and your little bows......I'll keep using my set-ups to field dress my deer for me.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - Matt / PA on 02/05/2002 16:10:56
02-05-2002, 04:01 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Frank, the 2001 ES opt 2 has the 6.6" brace.
Y2K and 2002 models have a 7" brace.
Nanny
Nanny
boo
boo!
EDIT:
I've seen one Havoc come close at 30" AMO measured w/ nothing on the sring but a served on nock point..304.
The best I've seen an FX do at AMO 30" (which was a 29" cam model) was 291, again w/ tied on nock point.
Not disputing your numbers just giving a reference of mine..
I think 500 FPS has/had an FX..wonder what he got..he has the monster draw like you..
JeffB
Edited by - JeffB on 02/05/2002 17:07:04
Y2K and 2002 models have a 7" brace.
Nanny
Nanny
boo
boo!
EDIT:
I've seen one Havoc come close at 30" AMO measured w/ nothing on the sring but a served on nock point..304.
The best I've seen an FX do at AMO 30" (which was a 29" cam model) was 291, again w/ tied on nock point.
Not disputing your numbers just giving a reference of mine..
I think 500 FPS has/had an FX..wonder what he got..he has the monster draw like you..
JeffB
Edited by - JeffB on 02/05/2002 17:07:04
02-05-2002, 10:51 PM
#33
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fargo ND USA
Posts: 124
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
For what it's worth Frank, here's some numbers for ya that I get on my 2001 ES with the 6.6" brace height: 31" draw, 76 lbs, tru-peep, rope nock, 331 gr. arrow, 342 fps. I know it's not 5 gr/lb, but it was just a test arrow. I also gave the cable a few extra twists for the extra poundage. On my hunting arrow, which weighed 410 grains and I shot at 68 lbs, I got 300 even.
Rod
Rod
02-05-2002, 11:55 PM
#34
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fairbanks alaska
Posts: 144
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
jeff, matt, good luck... if you can convert frank you can change anyone. least thats how i see it. by the way my bk2 hits 101 ke. i could drop my arrow weight gain a few fps and loose a few lbs of ke. im shooting 145grn now. ill be working on ABMathews on my end when he comes back to town. speaking of jerry bring your bow back so you can try some carbons. ive got one thats too short for me to shoot.
02-06-2002, 12:25 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,665
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Cute Ron. lol.
Actually, I will be bringing my bow back home, but I'm stopping in Wasilla for a brief minute to have Fletchers take the cam off. I'm trading my 27" cam for a 29" cam, and will have to wait for the 29"er to get here before I'm ready to shoot again.
Catch you in town in a few days. I'm down to #6 on stand bye with my flight. I should be able to get a seat... I hope!
Actually, I will be bringing my bow back home, but I'm stopping in Wasilla for a brief minute to have Fletchers take the cam off. I'm trading my 27" cam for a 29" cam, and will have to wait for the 29"er to get here before I'm ready to shoot again.
Catch you in town in a few days. I'm down to #6 on stand bye with my flight. I should be able to get a seat... I hope!
02-06-2002, 01:01 AM
#36
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: fairbanks alaska
Posts: 144
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
ok jerry, guess ill just have to lend you a couple carbons to TRY out when you get you cam on. you WILL be amazed. you still need to shoot my bowtech. actualy you can do me a favor by doing so. one of my accessories are giveing me some noise and that way i can listen to see if i can figure it out. the only guy i work with that could shoot my bow is left handed. but you should bring your release and arm guard if you use one {i dont have an arm guard} i understand your trying that glove thingy. im shooting a tru-fire x-caliper II.
been wondering about fletchers in wasilla thought i might run by there last time i was in town but no i had to change a ujoint and was a day late getting back to fairbanks.
Ron
been wondering about fletchers in wasilla thought i might run by there last time i was in town but no i had to change a ujoint and was a day late getting back to fairbanks.
Ron
02-06-2002, 02:53 AM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
Posts: 1,665
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
You're getting noise from your bow? I'm not familiar with that problem. Oh, that's right, your not shooting a mathews. How soon I forget! <img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>
I'd like to give that bow of yours a try. I'll have two different releases on me when I get home, so you can try them both out if you want. I'm writing up a review for Thane on the Winn Archery release, so I'll get your input on that one as well.
I'd like to give that bow of yours a try. I'll have two different releases on me when I get home, so you can try them both out if you want. I'm writing up a review for Thane on the Winn Archery release, so I'll get your input on that one as well.
02-06-2002, 05:00 AM
#38
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Hmmm, I think I am getting double-teamed! Some folks must smell a fresh "kill" in the air...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Well, lets take this a step further. The Extreme Solo would fit the bill nicely....except for it being just a tad longer in axle to axle length than what I like.....
....and, apparently, it is somewhat noisier than the other Bowtech bows with more handshock....
...so, if I want a quieter, more vibration free bow then I am going to have to look at the Pro38 or Patriot....
...but we can rule out the Patriot because it isn't offered in the 31 inch draw length....
...and the Pro38 is just too dang long for me....and anything over 4 lbs is just "too heavy" to carry when you compare it to what I am shooting now.
Explain to me again why I need to switch? Granted, my bow isn't going to shoot as fast as the Bowtech lineup but it sounds like....
... if I want to get a Bowtech that fits my draw length I am going to have to go a longer axle to axle length.
....if I want to get a Bowtech that is as quiet and vibration free as my current bow then I am going to have to shoot a heavier (mass weight) bow.
...if I want to get a Bowtech because of the increased speed then I am going to have to pull a stiffer draw force curve which wouldn't be an issue when I am out on the 3D course or on the target range but when my muscles are stiff from sitting in a treestand and a dandy buck walks by..........?
At least when Mathews came out with their perimeter weighted single cam they reduced noise/vibration with a lightweight bow that spit out some sweet arrow speeds for the time. That compensated, somewhat, for the stiffer draw cycle of the perimeter weighted cam. It sounds like Bowtech bumped the speed game "up a notch" but had to resort to a heavier bow to absorb more of the excess energy generated by the new cam.
As I stated in an earlier post, everything is a series of tradeoffs....you don't get something for nothing.
What it boils down to is that if I want to shoot a faster arrow from a Bowtech bow then I am going to have to give up on the idea of a lightweight bow.....or forget about a short axle to axle length......or deal with some more noise and vibration....and a stiffer draw cycle.
But, I will go this far.....Matt, do me a favor and email me the guy's name and number (or directions to the shop). I don't know if I want that llllooooooonnnnnngggg Pro38 but I would be willing to give it a try.......and, maybe, he might have one of the Extreme Solos in stock by the time I get there....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Well, lets take this a step further. The Extreme Solo would fit the bill nicely....except for it being just a tad longer in axle to axle length than what I like.....
....and, apparently, it is somewhat noisier than the other Bowtech bows with more handshock....
...so, if I want a quieter, more vibration free bow then I am going to have to look at the Pro38 or Patriot....
...but we can rule out the Patriot because it isn't offered in the 31 inch draw length....
...and the Pro38 is just too dang long for me....and anything over 4 lbs is just "too heavy" to carry when you compare it to what I am shooting now.
Explain to me again why I need to switch? Granted, my bow isn't going to shoot as fast as the Bowtech lineup but it sounds like....
... if I want to get a Bowtech that fits my draw length I am going to have to go a longer axle to axle length.
....if I want to get a Bowtech that is as quiet and vibration free as my current bow then I am going to have to shoot a heavier (mass weight) bow.
...if I want to get a Bowtech because of the increased speed then I am going to have to pull a stiffer draw force curve which wouldn't be an issue when I am out on the 3D course or on the target range but when my muscles are stiff from sitting in a treestand and a dandy buck walks by..........?
At least when Mathews came out with their perimeter weighted single cam they reduced noise/vibration with a lightweight bow that spit out some sweet arrow speeds for the time. That compensated, somewhat, for the stiffer draw cycle of the perimeter weighted cam. It sounds like Bowtech bumped the speed game "up a notch" but had to resort to a heavier bow to absorb more of the excess energy generated by the new cam.
As I stated in an earlier post, everything is a series of tradeoffs....you don't get something for nothing.
What it boils down to is that if I want to shoot a faster arrow from a Bowtech bow then I am going to have to give up on the idea of a lightweight bow.....or forget about a short axle to axle length......or deal with some more noise and vibration....and a stiffer draw cycle.
But, I will go this far.....Matt, do me a favor and email me the guy's name and number (or directions to the shop). I don't know if I want that llllooooooonnnnnngggg Pro38 but I would be willing to give it a try...
....and, maybe, he might have one of the Extreme Solos in stock by the time I get there....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-06-2002, 06:20 AM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
Personally, I’m busting Frank’s chops more than really trying to get him to switch (though I do think he should really try a loop for awhile). Obviously he loves those Hoyt bows, and at one time I felt the same way…I would try several different brands and always come back. Now, Hoyt has moved on in a direction different from mine, and Bowtech has kind of moved in. I was the same w/ HCA for many a year before I started w/ the Hoyt models “full time”. Seems every 5 or 6 years I get bored or disappointed w/ my “fave” company and move on. I suspect in a few years, Frank will hit the same. Heck I remember when he was buying Martins’ and PSE’s and other stuff, including his Magnatec….then he got that Havoc, and he’s been possessed..errr...that is…changed..ever since. I think everybody hits that level w/ one company or another. PW12 has his Merlins, Frank and Rob have their Hoyts, Matt and now I too have the Bowtechs, Ossage has his Mathews, Len has his Dartons..etc..
I think the fact that Frank could shoot heavier arrows, and/or drop his bow weight and get the same speed, more KE, similar noise and recoil, and a similar if not easier draw just goes in one ear and out the other. He’s in LOVE w/ that HavocTec….poor sod…
Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully..
Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW!
Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul!
JeffB
I think the fact that Frank could shoot heavier arrows, and/or drop his bow weight and get the same speed, more KE, similar noise and recoil, and a similar if not easier draw just goes in one ear and out the other. He’s in LOVE w/ that HavocTec….poor sod…
Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully..
Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW!
Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul!
JeffB
02-06-2002, 07:13 AM
#40
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: I shot the BowTech "Patriot" :-)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I think the fact that Frank could shoot heavier arrows, and/or drop his bow weight and get the same speed, more KE, similar noise and recoil, and a similar if not easier draw just goes in one ear and out the other. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>....
...but it would be with a longer axle to axle length and heavier (mass weight) bow...right?
I hear ya...and, as I said, all is not lost...I am considering it......
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully..
Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW!
Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, you got me there...she has laid down the law...but not so much about buying new bows, but rather because I have spending money on other interests...and since we just bought a house, a new car, and I have a "little Frank" on the way in May......<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Wait till you hear this one....she suggested Mathew Kyle for a name!! Blasphemy!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
As I stated above, I will consider one of the Bowtechs...but until they can put together a "Havoctec-like" bow (doesn't have to be a TEC riser) but with a 20 fps faster IBO speed I am unswayed....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
- 320 IBO speed
- 32-34 inch axle to axle length
- 31 inch draw length available
- 3.5 lb mass weight (bare bow)
- 7 inch or more brace height
- single cam
Build one of them!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
We also need to discuss that limb stopping draw stop and the dual track idler wheel comparison if you really want to get into this....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
...but it would be with a longer axle to axle length and heavier (mass weight) bow...right?
I hear ya...and, as I said, all is not lost...I am considering it...
...<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Or it could just be that his better half has been on his case about buying bows…this 180 degree “I’m sticking with what I got..I can't hear you! LA LA LA LA LA ” turn-around happened a few weeks after he got married…and that’s a most sad circumstance..I’ve walked in those shoes, and still do on occasion…the bows are getting fewer and farther between..but I’m able to sell a couple, and bring another one in thankfully..
Seems like Frank’s wife has LAID DOWN THE LAW!
Let’s all pray for his bowhunting soul!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Well, you got me there...she has laid down the law...but not so much about buying new bows, but rather because I have spending money on other interests...and since we just bought a house, a new car, and I have a "little Frank" on the way in May......<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Wait till you hear this one....she suggested Mathew Kyle for a name!! Blasphemy!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
As I stated above, I will consider one of the Bowtechs...but until they can put together a "Havoctec-like" bow (doesn't have to be a TEC riser) but with a 20 fps faster IBO speed I am unswayed....<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
- 320 IBO speed
- 32-34 inch axle to axle length
- 31 inch draw length available
- 3.5 lb mass weight (bare bow)
- 7 inch or more brace height
- single cam
Build one of them!! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
We also need to discuss that limb stopping draw stop and the dual track idler wheel comparison if you really want to get into this....<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>