99% let-off???
11-05-2003, 10:25 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: 99% let-off???
Toby from mo
The answer to your question about why is it harder to shoot high letoff bows is simple.
Take your bow and hold it at arms length and see how steady you hold it without drawing it and then draw it back and see which is steadier.You will notice you need the tension against the bow to hold it steady,basically making the bow feel lighter in your hand with lower letoff.
I can imagine the 99% letoff could be pulled off if the bow requires you to pull very hard in the wall to maintain full draw but this will actually take the letoff down a bit.In any case,doesn' t sound like a bow for me.But I would be willing to shoot one.
The answer to your question about why is it harder to shoot high letoff bows is simple.
Take your bow and hold it at arms length and see how steady you hold it without drawing it and then draw it back and see which is steadier.You will notice you need the tension against the bow to hold it steady,basically making the bow feel lighter in your hand with lower letoff.
I can imagine the 99% letoff could be pulled off if the bow requires you to pull very hard in the wall to maintain full draw but this will actually take the letoff down a bit.In any case,doesn' t sound like a bow for me.But I would be willing to shoot one.
11-06-2003, 05:04 AM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: 99% let-off???
I may be wrong Arthur but I have a feeling that Len was not necessarily referring to your earlier post.
Thank you for keeping this civil though. This is only the second time I have seen a reference to these new bows and would like to keep the thread going if for no other reason than to promote awareness of some of the far ends of the spectrum of bow design.
Thank you for keeping this civil though. This is only the second time I have seen a reference to these new bows and would like to keep the thread going if for no other reason than to promote awareness of some of the far ends of the spectrum of bow design.
11-06-2003, 07:37 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: 99% let-off???
Arthur:
Please ' chill' .
I was in no way referring to your posts. Although we many times disagree, I respect you and your opinions because you are a gentleman adversary.
How you hold, grip, or address the bow arm is the secret in shooting any bow effectively. Many, and maybe most, initiate too much influence on the bow and therefore find it more difficult to shoot higher let-off bows. The hard back wall available on most bows today associated with proper draw length will also make shooting higher let-off bows easier.
I don' t personally care for the very high let-off bows; but, I find that I can shoot them very well. I have a 4 time national champion who learned to shoot with 80% let-off. He has tried using the 65% modules many times but doesn' t care for them. It' s all a matter of how you' re conditioned associated with your fit and form.
Please ' chill' .
I was in no way referring to your posts. Although we many times disagree, I respect you and your opinions because you are a gentleman adversary.How you hold, grip, or address the bow arm is the secret in shooting any bow effectively. Many, and maybe most, initiate too much influence on the bow and therefore find it more difficult to shoot higher let-off bows. The hard back wall available on most bows today associated with proper draw length will also make shooting higher let-off bows easier.
I don' t personally care for the very high let-off bows; but, I find that I can shoot them very well. I have a 4 time national champion who learned to shoot with 80% let-off. He has tried using the 65% modules many times but doesn' t care for them. It' s all a matter of how you' re conditioned associated with your fit and form.
11-06-2003, 07:43 AM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: 99% let-off???
Frank, Len.. It doesn' t matter if Len was referring to my post or not. No matter how many smilies you stack on the end of comments like " real men" do this or that, or that ' some posts don' t belong" as a complete dismissal of a differing opinion, those comments are rude, immature and offensive.
But I do agree about the need for keeping up with the outer limits of bow design. Not out of interest - more like keeping an eye on the enemy.
Regardless of the shooting characteristics of the bow (and I have yet to hear either Len or sipeg talk about doing any 300/60X indoor rounds with one), the philosophical opposition that C903 raises is SPOT ON.
For me, this bow is an abomination that represents the end result of the influx of narcissistic ME generation types into archery. " To hell with ' the good of the sport' because it' s what " I" want that counts!" And the manufacturers are now happy to oblige with an attitude of ' To hell with the good of the sport, it' s the bottom line that counts." One thing for sure, things can' t get any worse. What? Mathews is going to come out with 99.2%? Hoyt with 99.3%? It would be funny if it weren' t so serious.
But I do agree about the need for keeping up with the outer limits of bow design. Not out of interest - more like keeping an eye on the enemy.
Regardless of the shooting characteristics of the bow (and I have yet to hear either Len or sipeg talk about doing any 300/60X indoor rounds with one), the philosophical opposition that C903 raises is SPOT ON.
For me, this bow is an abomination that represents the end result of the influx of narcissistic ME generation types into archery. " To hell with ' the good of the sport' because it' s what " I" want that counts!" And the manufacturers are now happy to oblige with an attitude of ' To hell with the good of the sport, it' s the bottom line that counts." One thing for sure, things can' t get any worse. What? Mathews is going to come out with 99.2%? Hoyt with 99.3%? It would be funny if it weren' t so serious.
11-06-2003, 08:26 AM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: 99% let-off???
Arthur,
Though I do not foresee myself shooting one of these new bows for the simple fact that I do not see an advantage for my personal tastes I do believe that it is a good thing to continue to experiment with different equipment designs in our sport. I do not feel that I fit into the group of archers who believe that technological change is a " bad" thing however, I trully respect their right to express their opinion as such.
In no way am I trying to be argumentative however, by the way in which your post reads to me it would seem that you almost take this issue personally.
Though I do not foresee myself shooting one of these new bows for the simple fact that I do not see an advantage for my personal tastes I do believe that it is a good thing to continue to experiment with different equipment designs in our sport. I do not feel that I fit into the group of archers who believe that technological change is a " bad" thing however, I trully respect their right to express their opinion as such.
In no way am I trying to be argumentative however, by the way in which your post reads to me it would seem that you almost take this issue personally.
11-06-2003, 08:37 AM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore Maryland USA
Posts: 1,385
RE: 99% let-off???
Arthur:
The " real men" comment was taken from a commercial and was meant to be a joke. Sorry if you took any offense. None was intended to anyone.
I' ll stand by my " Sometimes we have posts that " do not belong" . comment. There are some that are blatantly, harshly sarcastic. I welcome differences of opinion as I expect to offer my differences of opinion. How those opinions are presented is what I sometimes question. It' s those blatantly, harshly sarcastic posts that are " rude, immature and offensive" .
The ability of anyone to shoot 300/60X indoor rounds has absolutely nothing to do with the acceptance of any bow. I' m sorry but we' ll have to totally disagree on this one. My reasoning is that the shorter ATA bows do not lend themselves to indoor rounds; but, are very popular with the hunting community - and rightfully so. I wouldn' t use one, but that' s my choice. At least I' ve got a choice; which is what the archery community gets with let-off.
One man' s junk is another man' s gold. Some like the higher let-off where others do not. At least we have a choice and the manufacturers will pursue the variations and weed out those which do not sell. If the majority of archers want a specific design and any one small group is offended - they loose. I' ve had the misfortune of a manufacturer discontinuing a bow that I really liked. That' s life.
I agree with Frank that you may be taking this post too personally.
The " real men" comment was taken from a commercial and was meant to be a joke. Sorry if you took any offense. None was intended to anyone.
I' ll stand by my " Sometimes we have posts that " do not belong" . comment. There are some that are blatantly, harshly sarcastic. I welcome differences of opinion as I expect to offer my differences of opinion. How those opinions are presented is what I sometimes question. It' s those blatantly, harshly sarcastic posts that are " rude, immature and offensive" .
The ability of anyone to shoot 300/60X indoor rounds has absolutely nothing to do with the acceptance of any bow. I' m sorry but we' ll have to totally disagree on this one. My reasoning is that the shorter ATA bows do not lend themselves to indoor rounds; but, are very popular with the hunting community - and rightfully so. I wouldn' t use one, but that' s my choice. At least I' ve got a choice; which is what the archery community gets with let-off.
One man' s junk is another man' s gold. Some like the higher let-off where others do not. At least we have a choice and the manufacturers will pursue the variations and weed out those which do not sell. If the majority of archers want a specific design and any one small group is offended - they loose. I' ve had the misfortune of a manufacturer discontinuing a bow that I really liked. That' s life.
I agree with Frank that you may be taking this post too personally.
11-06-2003, 08:46 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: 99% let-off???
Wow..this got out of hand…Everyone go to their neutral corners 
As I see it, the guy is hardly ever gonna sell any if he’s relying on his own marketing/advertising skills
I suspect this will be like the Accu-draw or Accu-rest bow or whatever it’s called that’s been around for 10 years plus. If the guy didn’t have a good looking girl at his booth at the old BTS in 1996, no-one would even look at them ( I know I went back a few times to get another catalog and strike up a conversation with the cutey )
Regardless of the quality of the design, I think the vast majority will see this bow as a gimmick (I certainly do), and the interest shown over at AT (virtually zero..but possibly because no-one knows what the hell he’s talking about..hee hee) seems to confirm my own feelings.
Len perhaps you could elaborate on the design? My understanding is that it uses a tight bushing or bearings that causes an abnormal amount of friction on the axle? If so, what happens when the bushings start to wear? I can see this bow being very inconsistent after awhile if that indeed is the case.
As I see it, the guy is hardly ever gonna sell any if he’s relying on his own marketing/advertising skills
I suspect this will be like the Accu-draw or Accu-rest bow or whatever it’s called that’s been around for 10 years plus. If the guy didn’t have a good looking girl at his booth at the old BTS in 1996, no-one would even look at them ( I know I went back a few times to get another catalog and strike up a conversation with the cutey
)Regardless of the quality of the design, I think the vast majority will see this bow as a gimmick (I certainly do), and the interest shown over at AT (virtually zero..but possibly because no-one knows what the hell he’s talking about..hee hee) seems to confirm my own feelings.
Len perhaps you could elaborate on the design? My understanding is that it uses a tight bushing or bearings that causes an abnormal amount of friction on the axle? If so, what happens when the bushings start to wear? I can see this bow being very inconsistent after awhile if that indeed is the case.
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11-06-2003, 08:58 AM
#30
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Imperial, MO
Posts: 140
RE: 99% let-off???
Hey guys I posted this question from a completely neutral position. I have only been bow hunting for about 10 years so I guess you veterans would consider me to be of the “new era”. This is a new technology that I hadn’t seen nor heard of before and I only wanted to know if it was legit, not if it had a place in our sport. Again, I can understand why some people wouldn’t like this technology but remember this is “our” sport and some us like 80% let-off, fiber optic sight pins, electronic range finders, artificial cover scents & lures, GPS units, gore-tex rain gear, in-line muzzleloaders and black powder substitutes. We also sometimes cook is microwave ovens, change channels with a remote control, talk on a cell phones and communicate with our fellow outdoorsmen via hunting forums on the internet. The fact that we have advancing technology and right to choose is why I choose to live on this side of the pond, take away those things and I would choose not to support.
So lets get back on the topic because though I may or may not choose to buy a bow with 99% let-off I definitely want to hear the pro’s and con’s behind the technology.
Thanks for understanding,
So lets get back on the topic because though I may or may not choose to buy a bow with 99% let-off I definitely want to hear the pro’s and con’s behind the technology.
Thanks for understanding,