Bill L

Time to make some tough choices. My local archery shop has just become a Bowtech dealer. I couldn' t be happier. I have been wanting to upgrade for some time, but the nearest dealer was 2 hours away. This shop is 15 minutes, plus, I like the folks that run it. Depending on how my son' s youth firearm hunt goes this weekend, I will shoot the Pat DC, Pat SC, Black Knight Tall Brace and VFT side by side. The owner has promised to set them all up identically for me. My old Carerra has to find a new home, because one of these Bowtechs is coming home with me.
For those of you already in the Bowtech fold, a question or two. I will shoot whichever bow feels best to me at 29.5 inches and near 70 pounds. I want to have the shop go ahead and order some ACC' s for me. Yes Arthur, with only one negative aspect about them, I decided to take the plunge. I believe I will order the 3-60' s. When I play with the numbers on Bow Jackson' s site, I find that I get a 3-49 recommendation with 100 grain heads. Cut at 30.5 inches, I will have a total weight about 408 grains and 9.2% FOC. I am leaning toward 3-60' s, 125 grain heads for a total weight of 451 and FOC at 10.6%. Having been lurking here for quite some time, I like the 3-60 setup better. Any thoughts? I have also read that the BT' s like spine a little on the high side. I think I would rather make my error that direction. Since the Pat DC has really got my attention, do you think I am making a mistake going the 3-60, 125 route with my arrows?
Thanks for the help in advance, guys. I know I don' t post much, but I am here most every day and have learned a great deal from you, even after having done this for quite a few years. Best of luck this season.
Bill

Arthur P

Geez! I was involved in this thread before I even opened it!

I don' t think you' d be making a mistake going 3-60 with a 125 grain head. The thing to remember about the charts is: There are bows that have hard cams and draw 70 pounds and put 65 ft lbs of KE into an arrow. Then there are bows that have hard cams, draw 70 pounds and put 75 ft lbs of KE into an arrow. The same arrow will not work the same on both bows.

I haven' t even picked up a Bowtech off the rack cuz there' s no reason for me to get lathered up about bows they don' t make in my draw length. [:' (] But from everything I' ve heard and read about them, they run on the high side in efficiency which means they would generally take a stiffer arrow.

I' ve been test shooting a 3-60 - 33" long with a 125 gn head, full helical 5" feathers, at 60 pounds, fingers release, from an energy wheel bow - with excellent results.

BobCo19-65

See Arthur, you are da man!!!! , just don' t let um see your knees!!!

Bill L

Glad I could keep you from feeling left out, Arthur. I read your post on this matter last week. Do you see any reason for me to make the jump up to the 3-71 ACC' s? Certainly do not want to order these particular arrows in an improper size. Not many guys at my shop that would be willing to drop the change to buy them from me.

Arthur P

Jeff knows a heckuva lot more about ACC' s than I do, and maybe he' ll ring in here in a spell.

I' ve been over to Jackson' s and nosed around on the arrow selection chart. Looks to me like another 5 pounds of draw weight would put you in 3-71 with a 125 gn head. That' s awful close.

I haven' t had enough caffiene this morning to fully engage the brain, but I' ll try to go through this without rambling too bad.

I' m shooting a bow that' s 10 pounds less than you' re looking at, with what amounts to a hard round wheel or very mild cam BUT 3" longer arrow at 33 1/2" draw and fingers release. Fingers release jumps spine up by 5-7 pounds in the charts. Round wheel vs hard cam drops 10 pounds on the charts. Add in 3" of arrow length adds 15 pounds on the charts. I' ve been shooting mostly 125' s on this 3-60, but out of curiosity I mounted a 160 gn Magnus 2-blade (125 gn head on a 35 gn adaptor) on that arrow. It flew like a dart! 25 grains = 3 pounds of spine.

Starting at 60 pounds, subtract 10 pounds for round wheel, add 7 pounds for fingers vs release, add 15 pounds for arrow length and I' d need the same spine arrow as someone shooting a 30" arrow with release from a 72 pound hard cam bow. Add in the 3 pounds for the 160 gn head and that would bump me up to 75 pounds. But, plugging my numbers straight into the chart, 75 pounds puts me in 3-71!

So, just like you, it' s showing me on on the upper edge with 3-60. I' m doing very well with a 3-60, so I think you can do the same. Problem is, when it' s that close it' s hard to make a decision just based strictly on the charts. Trial and error is the only way to really decide but, in the case of ACC' s, error can be expensive.

Hopefully the dealer will have a couple of odd out ACC' s in both sizes and you can shoot them side by side while trying out the bows.

Bill L

Arthur,
I, like you, am hoping Jeff will be inclined to shed some light on this subject. Thanks for sharing what I consider to be a wealth of knowledge. Are you beginning to see why you were part of this thread prior to opening it? I doubt my guy has any ACC' s available. He was concerned that his customers would long for the Bowtechs, but not be able to write the check for them. I have yet to see anyone in there shooting ACC' s. I will wait for Jeff and some of the others to offer guidance before ordering a dozen. Thanks again.
Bill

JeffB

Bill,

Glad to see ya posting. I was wondering if my novella length email scared ya off

First things first...

With the amount of reflex on a Bowtech, and assuming and arrowrest like Golden Premier or other rest that sits back a tad, I suspect you most likely will end up with an arrow closer to 29" if not under a bit. Assuming the use of vanes on the back end of it, and a string loop, and 125 grain points a 3-60 should suit you fine for any of the model choices you are contemplating .

If you decide on a dual cam and WANT to shoot a 30" + arrow or feathers w/ a 125 grain point, I believe the 3-71 would be the wiser decision if you must buy a dozen beforehand and you are entirely set on a dual cam.

If you end up w/ the ExVFT or a Patriot SC, the 3-60 may still be your best bet. it depends on exact poundage, cut length, and fletching type again though. Many variables.

Arthur put it best I would highly suggest you pick your bow, and throw some of the ICSH 340' s you mentioned in your email through it and see what happens. They are a little softer spined than a A/C/C 3-60 and may guide you to the correct spine choice very quickly (shoot groups...don' t rely on paper)

Fire away if you have any more questions

Bill L

Guys,
Thanks for weighing in. Jeff, I must just be an idiot, because I have not managed to find the novella you sent me. I am quite anxious to read it. Went into the shop yesterday, and the VFT and the Pat DC have found new homes. I will have to wait until they get the second order in before shooting them all. I did get to speak with the owner of the VFT. Very experienced archer who bought the VFT to go along with his M.....word LX. He loves the VFT. 29 inches and 63 pounds, he is shooting ICS 400s and said it works well. Guess the process will be delayed another week. That' s ok, since I have waited what seems like an eternity to have the opportunity to start this process. Thanks again guys, and I will keep you posted. Jeff, any heads up about where to retrieve that message would be grand. I' d really like to read it.