Straightarrow

Penetration on a live animal will be greatly effected by the sharpness of the blade. Cut on Impact heads are sharp to the tip. Chisel point tips depend on tearing until the blades reach the hide. An extremely sharp cut on impact head will lose very little energy getting through the hide and flesh. When encountering bone, it' s possible the chisel point would then work better. It may be better at breaking bone (just a guess).

Study Dr. Ashby' s evidence and see if you agree.

timbow2

The only test I have is on the real thing. I shot two deer last yr with my muzzy 125s. Arrows in both deer penetrater no more than 10 in actually less. I took one deer so far ths year with my simmons sharks 160 gr. and it zipped through the deer like warm butter. And left a blood trail a blind man could follow.
Check out 5shots broadhead test results.

c903

What is all this " herdin' " going on? [:@]

It has been known since the warming of the ice age and rarely disputed by the " salts," that " cut-on-contact" heads penetrate better and maintain more energy during penetration than, chisel points and coned points, and that chisel point out perform coned points, but that all three types will do the job; but certain types usually do better than other types.

If it was not for the small diameter and very pointed chisel point with short length (not height) blades, I would be shooting " cut-on-contact" heads off my recurve, because COC heads are going to penetrate much better when shot by a low fps/KE bow.

You can argue until doomsday, but the physics will remain and rule.

DaveC

My foam broadhead target says the COI heads out penetrate.

5 shot

I feel it really depneds on several things. First what material we are talking about, the type of bow and arrow setup, and the specific broadheads. In bone the chisel tips to better when shooting moderate to heavy equipment. In hide the two blade cut on contacts do better, the three blade cut on contacts are about half way between. The two blade cut on contacts with bleeders do well until the bleeders hit, then they slow down some. In animals two blade heads have the potential to penetrate better out of the same setups. One reason is that they do slip through the hide easier, then 2nd is that they can slip between ribs, where a multi-blade head can' t. If a two blade goes between the ribs you will gain more penetration into vital tissue right off the bat. combine that with the cut through hide easier and you get better penetration. In my testing I have found little differnce in penetration between the two styles, but my tests are not animals. Bottom line smaller = better penetration, the fewer blades or the smaller the total cutting surface the better your penetration. For most setups I think it' s moot point, not worth the worry. for low Ke setups like those used by women and young hunters or for traditional shooters, I think the two blade cut on contact heads gives them the potential to get better penetration, and with these setups you need every edge you can get.

Deleted User

[Deleted by Admins]

BobCo19-65

Navy, I' m interest to know what you were able to get from the research furnished to you from Dr. Ashton. I hope you were able to read it. It seems quite informative.

Rangeball

He wouldn' t get the chance. I' d float like a butterfly and pee like a scared little girl...

I guess we' ll have to agree to disagree. I think Mike could push anyone with his punching motion, and duplicate the same " push" only much faster to become a punch. It' s all in the application of force behind the object being pushed.

For the record, I am shooting Rocket Meteorites this year, with the pointed pathfinder chisel style head. In whitetails with modern equipment pushing good ke levels, I don' t think head style will make much of a difference, provided the bow is tuned well and shot accurately. In a large buck, shoulder hit, I would love the added insurance of a COI head, as I believe based on Dr. Ashton' s study it has the best chance to get the job done. Whether or not it would be overkill depends on the individual situation.

It sounds like you have chisel tips all tuned up and ready to go. If so, I wouldn' t worry to much about it. What I gleaned from the Ashton study was that on any hit except thick bone (shoulder) you' ll get the job done on whitetail size and design animals. The shoulder hit can impede multi-blade penetration, which the majority of chisel tip heads have.

That reminds me of a shot I took in my younger days. I was shooting a McPherson 3rd generation inner cam (before Matt sold the company), pushing a heavy aluminum shaft with a 150 grain PSE chisel tip 4 blade head about 180 fps, really smoking it. Bow was tuned, and arrows flying straight. I wasn' t using a release or sights, and had been practicing religiously to at least be proficient.

I found a spot that was getting a lot of activity, so I sat down on a stump about 15 yards off the trail. 20 minutes later, a nice 1.5 year old 8 pointer comes along, I draw, and he stops dead in my shooting lane and looks at me. Shaking like crazy, I pick my spot and let fly. Arrow smacks the deer square in the shoulder, and BOUNCES STRAIGHT BACKWARDS. Deer runs off, I retrieve my arrow, I got about 1/2" of penetration.

I' m not saying the outcome would have been better with a COI head, but I believe it would have had more potential to get the job done.

Deleted User

[Deleted by Admins]

Arthur P

The pro shop was playing an interesting ad video by Steelforce one day. They had what looked like a Morrell bag target setup with a big foam block several yards behind it. They were shooting Steelforce, Muzzy 100 3-blade and Rocket Steelheads into the bag on carbon arrows from a 70 pound compound. The Muzzy and Rockets both came to a screeching halt after penetrating a few inches. The Steelforce zipped through the bag like it wasn' t even there and stuck in the foam block. Then they shot the Steelforce at the bag with a 50 pound recurve. Again, it zipped through the bag and stuck in the foam block.

Of course, Rocket would' ve just been using the foam block to ' prove' their heads penetrate deeper than Steelforce. But having to use a tape measure to tell the difference in penetration from one head to the next in a block of foam is one thing. Seeing one head stopped cold in a target and the other one whiz through that same target and keep on truckin' ...even from a bow that puts out a LOT less energy.... That' s impressive.