RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
09-29-2003, 06:57 AM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Excuse me while I jam this ice-pick in my eye! [X(]
Now seriously...I’ve gotta vent here. Excuse me if I sound like ArthurP.
Basically:
I' m sick of carbon arrows...IC carbons...most aren' t very straight....you have cut a little off here, a little off there..and those that are straight don' t stay straight for long....weight tolerances are spotty, inserts are either too loose or too tight... and spine...ughhh...spine..... Yep some are better than others..but they all have some kind of problems that bug the livin beejesus out of me....[:@]
MY NEARLY BRAND NEW dozen of Goldtip XT55/75' s (of which I was able to get 9 really straight shafts), is pretty much KAPUT! Currently 4 of those nine are about as straight as Liberace...2 more are starting to get a little screwy, and 3 are still unshot... I got these about 2 months ago.
Now I may be exaggerating a bit on straightness, but there is no doubt they are not as straight as they were, and now I' ve got 2 or 3 that have a mind of their own...I' ve got one that constantly likes to bear to the right, and another that likes to shake it' s ass around in big circles on the way down to the target no matter what.
The final straw was when I weighed my last 3 bare shafts......12 grain weight variance...
AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[:' (]
[:@][
][X(]
Yes I have learned my lesson. I have known all along my efforts to replace them were folly.[:' (]
I rummaged around my arrow box and found 2 brand new A/C/C 3-49 shafts I had fletched, 2 that were unfletched..and after some more digging around found 3 more that I had shot & cut to a different length than I need but were still straight as can be. I heated up the points, took out the inserts, cleaned, cut off as necessary, fletched, re/installed inserts...they were all straight..inserts fit perfectly...
Shot them and they ALL smacked together at 25 yards....hee hee..
and 30...Ha ha..
and 40... ho ho!
No more fooling around for me....they are worth the big bucks!
NO more having to install unibushings
NO more having to cut from each end
NO more having to rough up the finish to get fletches to stick
NO more having to spin, spin, and spin, to get an insert right
NO more having to worry about matched weight
NO more having to worry about matched spine
NO more having to worry about straightness runout
NO more having to worry about setting aside 6 " good ones" for hunting only
Yeah I know...they will come out with something else next year I feel the need to try.....
The Bemans and Easton carbons I would still shoot if budget dictates otherwise and the CX selects are pretty decent.....
NO!...wait!...it' s happening again....[:@]
Must....not....shoot...anything...besides...A...C. ...C' s.......
I wonder if Easton has a 12 step program???
Now seriously...I’ve gotta vent here. Excuse me if I sound like ArthurP.
Basically:
I' m sick of carbon arrows...IC carbons...most aren' t very straight....you have cut a little off here, a little off there..and those that are straight don' t stay straight for long....weight tolerances are spotty, inserts are either too loose or too tight... and spine...ughhh...spine..... Yep some are better than others..but they all have some kind of problems that bug the livin beejesus out of me....[:@]
MY NEARLY BRAND NEW dozen of Goldtip XT55/75' s (of which I was able to get 9 really straight shafts), is pretty much KAPUT! Currently 4 of those nine are about as straight as Liberace...2 more are starting to get a little screwy, and 3 are still unshot... I got these about 2 months ago.
Now I may be exaggerating a bit on straightness, but there is no doubt they are not as straight as they were, and now I' ve got 2 or 3 that have a mind of their own...I' ve got one that constantly likes to bear to the right, and another that likes to shake it' s ass around in big circles on the way down to the target no matter what.
The final straw was when I weighed my last 3 bare shafts......12 grain weight variance...
AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH[:' (]
[:@][][X(]Yes I have learned my lesson. I have known all along my efforts to replace them were folly.[:' (]
I rummaged around my arrow box and found 2 brand new A/C/C 3-49 shafts I had fletched, 2 that were unfletched..and after some more digging around found 3 more that I had shot & cut to a different length than I need but were still straight as can be. I heated up the points, took out the inserts, cleaned, cut off as necessary, fletched, re/installed inserts...they were all straight..inserts fit perfectly...
Shot them and they ALL smacked together at 25 yards....hee hee..
and 30...Ha ha..
and 40... ho ho!
No more fooling around for me....they are worth the big bucks!
NO more having to install unibushings
NO more having to cut from each end
NO more having to rough up the finish to get fletches to stick
NO more having to spin, spin, and spin, to get an insert right
NO more having to worry about matched weight
NO more having to worry about matched spine
NO more having to worry about straightness runout
NO more having to worry about setting aside 6 " good ones" for hunting only
Yeah I know...they will come out with something else next year I feel the need to try.....
The Bemans and Easton carbons I would still shoot if budget dictates otherwise and the CX selects are pretty decent.....
NO!...wait!...it' s happening again....[:@]
Must....not....shoot...anything...besides...A...C. ...C' s.......
I wonder if Easton has a 12 step program???
09-29-2003, 07:32 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
I wonder if Easton has a 12 step program???
9- Can whole heartedly recommend them to people you' ve only met on the internet and know they will be totally thrilled and indebted to you forever...
My ACCs, bought last fall on your recommendation, all hit the same spot out to hunting distances. Each and every one, time after time, assuming I' ve done my part... Life is good
You' ll never really know how good a shot you are until you try great shafts. I always assumed I just sucked.10- Sure they cost more, but have you checked the prices of blood pressure meds lately? Not to mention Prozac? Look at all the stress they' ll save you.
11- They allow you to fit in with whatever crowd you happen to be with, either the aluminum or carbon guys. " Yeah, I shoot aluminum... Yeah, I shoot carbon"
12- Once purchased and dialed in, they allow you to totally forget about your arrows and concentrate on other things, like your form, bow tune, etc. They bring supreme confidence to the equation, and allow you to focus elswhere without the nagging " Oh my, look at that world record buck I' ve just drawn on... I hope that last target shot I took with this arrow didn' t mess with the spine any..."
09-29-2003, 08:46 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 391
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
I thought the 12 step program was for making payments. I could probably handle 12 easy payments of $10.99. Can I pay for my dozen over the course of a year?
Seriously though, from reading what you both have to say about the ACC' s over the past several months, you' ve convinced me to give them a try. I just haven' t found the extra $$ yet but they' re on the wish list.
Seriously though, from reading what you both have to say about the ACC' s over the past several months, you' ve convinced me to give them a try. I just haven' t found the extra $$ yet but they' re on the wish list.
09-29-2003, 09:17 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Jeep, I paid $60 for a half dozen. More than enough to shoot and hunt with.
That' s the great thing about them, you don' t have to buy a dozen to cull 4-6 shooters to hunt with, making them cost effective.
With their fantastic spec tolerances, you could probably buy them one at a time over the course of a few months or so and end up with a perfect set. Or simply buy a new one to replace a damaged one.
They' re that good.
That' s the great thing about them, you don' t have to buy a dozen to cull 4-6 shooters to hunt with, making them cost effective.
With their fantastic spec tolerances, you could probably buy them one at a time over the course of a few months or so and end up with a perfect set. Or simply buy a new one to replace a damaged one.
They' re that good.
09-29-2003, 11:12 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Rangeball,
LOL Great post. I especially liked #11. I was drinking some water at the time, and it damn near came out my nose.
I also liked your comment about “confidence”. That really struck home. And it’s true. I know that once I cut and fletch them, get the inserts in w/ epoxy & spin using field points, my broadheads, mechanical or otherwise are going to be on. EVERY arrow will hit the same spot. No worries.
The only “flaw” w/ A/C/C’s is the fact that they can bend. However IME it takes so much to trash one, that I will go through 2 dozen or more high end all-carbon shafts (and I’d still have to pick and choose among them to get “the good ones”). One of those 3-49’s I fletched has 6 or 7 hard nock-end hits and it’s still very straight and flies perfectly. Again, where I see the most damage is the guys yanking on them like a wet-noodle trying to get them out of a 3D target. I rarely destroy an A/C/C unless it’s a robinhood, or it’s a direct hit on a rock or something that would trash any other shaft.
What has been your experience with durability?
Jeep,
Yup, they are pricey. Some folks can’t bear to spend that money on “just a hunting arrow”. Personally, I’m totally the opposite. As RB mentioned though, you should be able to buy half-dozens. We sell them that way @ the shop (bare shafts or fletched), and Cabelas sells bare-shaft half-dozens with components for about $65 IIRC. And with the “letter codes” you can go to your proshop when the time comes and match the code to get the EXACT same weight arrows w/ the next dozen or half-dozen.
On a related note:
I built a new dozen of the A/C Kintetic II’s for a friend of mine about a week ago. While still quite good, they do have some straightness issues. One was an absolute tomato-stake, and 2 others were iffy; this was @ a cut length of 28”. I should also note though they are labeled A/C they are not the same construction as an A/C/C: they are actually the same as a Beman Matrix w/ just a camo coating. For the astronomical prices for KII’s this is unacceptable IMO. The original Kinetics were actually ACC’s w/ a camo coating and had much better tolerances (but the camo finish was terrible…hence the change).
Ok….I’ll get off the soapbox now: sorry for the interruption. We now return you to your regularly scheduled HBBS program.
LOL
Great post. I especially liked #11. I was drinking some water at the time, and it damn near came out my nose. I also liked your comment about “confidence”. That really struck home. And it’s true. I know that once I cut and fletch them, get the inserts in w/ epoxy & spin using field points, my broadheads, mechanical or otherwise are going to be on. EVERY arrow will hit the same spot. No worries.
The only “flaw” w/ A/C/C’s is the fact that they can bend. However IME it takes so much to trash one, that I will go through 2 dozen or more high end all-carbon shafts (and I’d still have to pick and choose among them to get “the good ones”). One of those 3-49’s I fletched has 6 or 7 hard nock-end hits and it’s still very straight and flies perfectly. Again, where I see the most damage is the guys yanking on them like a wet-noodle trying to get them out of a 3D target. I rarely destroy an A/C/C unless it’s a robinhood, or it’s a direct hit on a rock or something that would trash any other shaft.
What has been your experience with durability?
Jeep,
Yup, they are pricey. Some folks can’t bear to spend that money on “just a hunting arrow”. Personally, I’m totally the opposite. As RB mentioned though, you should be able to buy half-dozens. We sell them that way @ the shop (bare shafts or fletched), and Cabelas sells bare-shaft half-dozens with components for about $65 IIRC. And with the “letter codes” you can go to your proshop when the time comes and match the code to get the EXACT same weight arrows w/ the next dozen or half-dozen.
On a related note:
I built a new dozen of the A/C Kintetic II’s for a friend of mine about a week ago. While still quite good, they do have some straightness issues. One was an absolute tomato-stake, and 2 others were iffy; this was @ a cut length of 28”. I should also note though they are labeled A/C they are not the same construction as an A/C/C: they are actually the same as a Beman Matrix w/ just a camo coating. For the astronomical prices for KII’s this is unacceptable IMO. The original Kinetics were actually ACC’s w/ a camo coating and had much better tolerances (but the camo finish was terrible…hence the change).
Ok….I’ll get off the soapbox now: sorry for the interruption. We now return you to your regularly scheduled HBBS program.
09-29-2003, 01:07 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Navy,
Oh yes..they' ve been refletched...vanes, feathers, helical, offset,new nocks, new bushings, nocks turned for different high spine sides....you name it. I' ve been trying to get them " right" for over a week now.
They are definitely wobbly now. My " exaggeration" comment was directed at the Liberace reference And the one that does cartwheels down the range is certainly no exaggeration. It' s horrible to watch that thing.
My older goldtips have not shot out so quickly, but these have. I should also mention that these are 55/75' s. I have some 75/95' s Matt sent me with quite a few shots on them that are not giving me problems: could be the thick walls are less susceptible to this phenomenon. I do know I went from shooting very good groups(2 to 4" ) @ 40 yards to very poor groups (6 to 8" ) with the same shafts in a weeks time. Then shooting the same bow w/ no modifications, @ the same time, shooting 2" ACC groups with much less frustration (similar spines and arrow weights), that the problem lies somewhere in the arrows.(and the tune was good on the 55/75' s)
I agree, the subconcious can do amazing things, including just what you describe. But these particular Goldtips are definitely " shooting out" at a very fast rate. I' ve experienced this with all the carbon shafts, not just Goldtip, but these are worse than any other dozen of anything I' ve owned. Could be just a bad batch for all I know. I' m not willing to invest in any more to find out though. Too much time and effort involved to get them " right" and possibly not have them last very long.
I know some people love ' em, and have had great luck with the Goldtips (including my friend Ausie) , and I know some don' t like myself .I' d much rather pay $55 a doz than $110 a dozen But I' ve blown so much money on Goldtips, CX, Beman and other and I cannot afford to " experiment" anymore. Might as well just stick with what I know works, and comes in at or below tolerance.
Oh yes..they' ve been refletched...vanes, feathers, helical, offset,new nocks, new bushings, nocks turned for different high spine sides....you name it. I' ve been trying to get them " right" for over a week now.
They are definitely wobbly now. My " exaggeration" comment was directed at the Liberace reference
And the one that does cartwheels down the range is certainly no exaggeration. It' s horrible to watch that thing.My older goldtips have not shot out so quickly, but these have. I should also mention that these are 55/75' s. I have some 75/95' s Matt sent me with quite a few shots on them that are not giving me problems: could be the thick walls are less susceptible to this phenomenon. I do know I went from shooting very good groups(2 to 4" ) @ 40 yards to very poor groups (6 to 8" ) with the same shafts in a weeks time. Then shooting the same bow w/ no modifications, @ the same time, shooting 2" ACC groups with much less frustration (similar spines and arrow weights), that the problem lies somewhere in the arrows.(and the tune was good on the 55/75' s)
I agree, the subconcious can do amazing things, including just what you describe. But these particular Goldtips are definitely " shooting out" at a very fast rate. I' ve experienced this with all the carbon shafts, not just Goldtip, but these are worse than any other dozen of anything I' ve owned. Could be just a bad batch for all I know. I' m not willing to invest in any more to find out though. Too much time and effort involved to get them " right" and possibly not have them last very long.
I know some people love ' em, and have had great luck with the Goldtips (including my friend Ausie) , and I know some don' t like myself .I' d much rather pay $55 a doz than $110 a dozen
But I' ve blown so much money on Goldtips, CX, Beman and other and I cannot afford to " experiment" anymore. Might as well just stick with what I know works, and comes in at or below tolerance.
09-29-2003, 01:19 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,994
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Jeff, I got the half dozen late last season. Only flung one at a doe, angling up a hill, stopped her with a mouth grunt mid step and kind of crouching. Just as I released, she completed her step which resulted in some shaved hair just under her heart area. Arrow nailed an exposed tree root. After extraction, arrow is fine.
I' ve been shooting them into a bag target all year, so wear isn' t an issue for me. All 6 are numbered, and all 6 shoot the same poi based on the shot characteristics.
I agree wholeheartedly. They are a very durable arrow. If a person exercises any degree of common sense, they should serve him/her for a very long time...
I' ve been shooting them into a bag target all year, so wear isn' t an issue for me. All 6 are numbered, and all 6 shoot the same poi based on the shot characteristics.
I agree wholeheartedly. They are a very durable arrow. If a person exercises any degree of common sense, they should serve him/her for a very long time...
09-29-2003, 01:24 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
Jeff.
The only thing that is missing from your posts is the disclaimer
You know the one that reads " This is a paid advertisement by Easton Archery blah blah"
Just pullin ya chain man
Now send all them worthless gold tips and cx selects down to me I am sure I can put them to good use oh and ya better send 1/2 dozen of them 3-49' s just so I can do an independant test of them[]
The only thing that is missing from your posts is the disclaimer
You know the one that reads " This is a paid advertisement by Easton Archery blah blah"
Just pullin ya chain man
Now send all them worthless gold tips and cx selects down to me I am sure I can put them to good use oh and ya better send 1/2 dozen of them 3-49' s just so I can do an independant test of them[
]
09-29-2003, 06:00 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: RANT: Sometime' s Ya Just Gotta Vent
And these are the same Gold Tips you were so enthused about just a short while ago?
I know out of my 9 CX Terminator Selects, I have only 4 that I can rely on with broadheads. Those 4 are spot on. The others are right, low, high left, etc. Thought it was my shooting one day, but when I shot the 4 good ones, the problems just evaporated.
I am probably crazy, but I' ve got a dozen ACCs that are going to sit out the archery season unless trouble happens. My Bowtech is sighted in for the Terminators, and the ACCs shoot well, but quite low in comparison. I did shoot them just to see what they would be like out of that bow. 27 yards, perfect flight, 1 1/2 -2" groups with Muzzys and practice blades, but with my 40 yard pin. Next year they are the arrows of choice for sure.
The best part is that I can still get them for $100 per doz. (shafts with inserts) at my local shop. Thought about trying aluminum again, but I' m not real sure what the reason would be.
I know out of my 9 CX Terminator Selects, I have only 4 that I can rely on with broadheads. Those 4 are spot on. The others are right, low, high left, etc. Thought it was my shooting one day, but when I shot the 4 good ones, the problems just evaporated.
I am probably crazy, but I' ve got a dozen ACCs that are going to sit out the archery season unless trouble happens. My Bowtech is sighted in for the Terminators, and the ACCs shoot well, but quite low in comparison. I did shoot them just to see what they would be like out of that bow. 27 yards, perfect flight, 1 1/2 -2" groups with Muzzys and practice blades, but with my 40 yard pin. Next year they are the arrows of choice for sure.
The best part is that I can still get them for $100 per doz. (shafts with inserts) at my local shop. Thought about trying aluminum again, but I' m not real sure what the reason would be.