hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
09-03-2003, 07:44 PM
#1
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Contoocook NH USA
Posts: 818
hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
Just curious if anyone hunts with 3" vanes? and if so what do you think you' re gaining? I' ve used 4" vanes for about 5 years and was thinking about fletching a few hunting arrows with my 3D vanes. Not sure if my arrow with a 100gr Montec broadhead would stabailize well. What' s your opinion on it?
09-03-2003, 09:47 PM
#2
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,051
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I' m not familiar with your broadhead. Is it mechanical? If not, I' d stay away from such a small vane. The only time I used 4 inch vanes were on carbons because they were so small in diameter. I much prefer the stability of 5" vanes.
09-03-2003, 10:00 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I have shot nothing but small vanes for the last 6 years on my hunting arrows (Easton 235 and 280 Diamond Vanes, Duravane 2.3" 3D vanes).........I shoot high speed arrows tipped with mechs and treat my bow the same as my 3D set-up. Why practice drilling X after X all season long with the 3D set-up and then switch everything over for the real thing? I just switch the pretty colored bow for the camo one and have at it. The only thing I change is that I up the arrow weight and draw weight a bit for hunting, I wind up with similar speeds and trajectory with even more punch.
That said, my high speed 3D style set-up is hitting much harder than many guys heavy duty rigs.
My typical set-up over the last several years has been 375gr finished arrows at 65-70# of draw weight with speeds between 295 on up to 315fps. I haven' t had a bow shooting under 75ft lbs of KE since 1996.
Shooting a rig similar to what I shoot all Winter/Spring/Summer at 3D tournaments really helps the confidence in the fall.
Since my mechs fly like field points I simply don' t need long fletch to stabilize anything.
Some of the small fixed heads like the Montec or smaller new Wasp Bullet, or Rocket Ultimate Steel etc. I' d probably try a 280 D. vane or a 3" with about 3-4 degrees of offset and see how they shot.
Larger cutting diameter fixed heads I would probably just go straight to 4" vanes.
That said, my high speed 3D style set-up is hitting much harder than many guys heavy duty rigs.
My typical set-up over the last several years has been 375gr finished arrows at 65-70# of draw weight with speeds between 295 on up to 315fps. I haven' t had a bow shooting under 75ft lbs of KE since 1996.
Shooting a rig similar to what I shoot all Winter/Spring/Summer at 3D tournaments really helps the confidence in the fall.
Since my mechs fly like field points I simply don' t need long fletch to stabilize anything.
Some of the small fixed heads like the Montec or smaller new Wasp Bullet, or Rocket Ultimate Steel etc. I' d probably try a 280 D. vane or a 3" with about 3-4 degrees of offset and see how they shot.
Larger cutting diameter fixed heads I would probably just go straight to 4" vanes.
09-03-2003, 11:45 PM
#4
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 174
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I use 3" " Kurly vanes" simply because thats as big as they make that vane.
I can get Muzzy heads to fly perfectly, and group right with my field points. Going to Slick Tricks makes it even easier!!!
I went to the Kurly vanes to get some more FOC (they weight LESS than feathers!!!). Now that I am going to 125gn heads, I MIGHT go back to standard vanes (PROBABLY 4" MAYBE 3" we' ll see).
BTW those light vanes sure made for a quick arrow (300 fps) and as a bonus, this is a place where it' s almost a free lunch. More speed, and STILL great accuracy AND penetration!
While on paper the heavier arrow might have a touch more KE...some of that KE is in the feathers/vanes. feathers/vanes do NOT transmit KE as well as the shaft and/or broadhead does
I can get Muzzy heads to fly perfectly, and group right with my field points. Going to Slick Tricks makes it even easier!!!
I went to the Kurly vanes to get some more FOC (they weight LESS than feathers!!!). Now that I am going to 125gn heads, I MIGHT go back to standard vanes (PROBABLY 4" MAYBE 3" we' ll see).
BTW those light vanes sure made for a quick arrow (300 fps) and as a bonus, this is a place where it' s almost a free lunch. More speed, and STILL great accuracy AND penetration!
While on paper the heavier arrow might have a touch more KE...some of that KE is in the feathers/vanes. feathers/vanes do NOT transmit KE as well as the shaft and/or broadhead does
09-04-2003, 12:54 PM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 801
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I hunt with 3" vanes, used to hunt with 4" vanes. You asked what the difference is .. for me and my set up it was 7-8 feet per second. I noticed no difference in arrow flight or accuracy with my broadheads, the loss in arrow weight was minimal and offset by velocity of the arrow. Not sure what 7-8 feet a second really gains me except maybe that I get a slightly and I mean very slightly flatter arrow trajectory.
09-04-2003, 07:50 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Contoocook NH USA
Posts: 818
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I was told you can pick up a few more fps and that it also make your arrow in fight quieter. My broadhead is a fixed one piece, I' m giving up on the mechanical broadheads (I personally don' t trust them). My arrow fight is pretty darn quiet now, I was looking to close my pin gap so I have one pin setting for 25yds. As I posted above, I' m going to fletch up two just to see if it will help out any. Thanks for the post guys and good luck this year. I' ll post my results as soon as I can.
09-07-2003, 01:33 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fulton county IL USA
Posts: 4,271
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
I' m using the 3" 3D Duravanes and love ' em. They have shot so well from me this year. From the Turkey blind to all the 3D' s this season so it' s only natural to shoot them in the woods this fall. Great post Matt and I totally agree. I also shoot the little Rocket Steelhead 100 so arrow flight isn' t a problem.
09-07-2003, 06:02 PM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
IF your form is absolutely perfect in the worst field conditions, IF your bow is perfectly tuned, IF you have absolutely perfectly tuned arrows and IF nothing goes the slightest bit wrong, then 3" vanes might stabilize Montecs okay. If you can' t guarantee all those things, then you' d better go to 4" .
If you want less weight than 4" vanes then switch to 4" feathers. They' ll be about the same weigh as 3" vanes and give you more stabilization than 4" vanes will.
If you want less weight than 4" vanes then switch to 4" feathers. They' ll be about the same weigh as 3" vanes and give you more stabilization than 4" vanes will.
09-08-2003, 06:40 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
RE: hunting w/ 3" or 4" vanes?
Interesting this thread should come up.
Recently my good friend and one of our illustrious moderators, Matt/PA, sent me some finished arrow shafts, and they were fletched w/ 3" vanes w/a pretty good offset bordering on a slight helical. I enjoyed really good accuracy with them at least out to 40 yards. For mech' s I don' t see this as a problem assuming a well tuned bow and enough offset.
To continue the story, since I' m a " feather guy" , I went out and bought some 3" feathers for another dozen arrows, knowing that feathers offer more stability per inch than plastic. I fletched these in a heavy right helical. A tad noisy in flight at 287 FPS, but very accurate. Unfortunately my fletching jig is old, and I was having a hard time keeping the feathers on because the helical clamps wouldn' t sit right. So I pulled out another old fletcher, but I only had a straight clamp for it. W/ the 3" feathers I wasn' t able to get much of an offset without the same prob as I had w/ the old jig....so I put on what I could get..it was very close to a straight fletch.
Although quieter, there was a noticeable drop-off in forgiveness, especially at 30 yards plus. I just wasn' t holding the groups as tight when I' d make a mistake. So over the weekend I found a bargain on a 100 count bag of 5" feathers. I used to shoot 5" feathers with agressive offset on ACC 3-71' s for a few years, but it' s been about 6 years since I switched to 4" feathers with a helical.
Long story short, I forgot what I was missing w/ those 5" feathers. Talk about massive stability (without increased weight)! As I told Matt in an email I think I could attach a bayonet to the front and get them to fly. My groups tightened up noticeably, my " pin gap" closed up a bit (less downrange velocity decay yet I still gaining stability), and even intentionally making a mistake, my misses ended up being good hits, especially at 25 yards plus. In addition to alot of extra stability, I have better fletch clearance (I' m not using a drop-away) and much less feather " hiss" due to using only an offset as compared to a heavy helical w/ shorter feathers.
Moral of the story: IMO, you can never have enough stabilization when working on a hunting rig. The short vanes/feathers WILL work w/ a mech or very small fixed blade head, but you' ve got to put one out there as good as you do on the range all day long. IME, I alway seem to be in awkward positions shooting, and nothing ever goes right. I like knowing that when I make a mistake, that I' ve got something working for me instead of against me to help minimize those inevitable goofs!
Recently my good friend and one of our illustrious moderators, Matt/PA, sent me some finished arrow shafts, and they were fletched w/ 3" vanes w/a pretty good offset bordering on a slight helical. I enjoyed really good accuracy with them at least out to 40 yards. For mech' s I don' t see this as a problem assuming a well tuned bow and enough offset.
To continue the story, since I' m a " feather guy" , I went out and bought some 3" feathers for another dozen arrows, knowing that feathers offer more stability per inch than plastic. I fletched these in a heavy right helical. A tad noisy in flight at 287 FPS, but very accurate. Unfortunately my fletching jig is old, and I was having a hard time keeping the feathers on because the helical clamps wouldn' t sit right. So I pulled out another old fletcher, but I only had a straight clamp for it. W/ the 3" feathers I wasn' t able to get much of an offset without the same prob as I had w/ the old jig....so I put on what I could get..it was very close to a straight fletch.
Although quieter, there was a noticeable drop-off in forgiveness, especially at 30 yards plus. I just wasn' t holding the groups as tight when I' d make a mistake. So over the weekend I found a bargain on a 100 count bag of 5" feathers. I used to shoot 5" feathers with agressive offset on ACC 3-71' s for a few years, but it' s been about 6 years since I switched to 4" feathers with a helical.
Long story short, I forgot what I was missing w/ those 5" feathers. Talk about massive stability (without increased weight)! As I told Matt in an email I think I could attach a bayonet to the front and get them to fly. My groups tightened up noticeably, my " pin gap" closed up a bit (less downrange velocity decay yet I still gaining stability), and even intentionally making a mistake, my misses ended up being good hits, especially at 25 yards plus. In addition to alot of extra stability, I have better fletch clearance (I' m not using a drop-away) and much less feather " hiss" due to using only an offset as compared to a heavy helical w/ shorter feathers.
Moral of the story: IMO, you can never have enough stabilization when working on a hunting rig. The short vanes/feathers WILL work w/ a mech or very small fixed blade head, but you' ve got to put one out there as good as you do on the range all day long. IME, I alway seem to be in awkward positions shooting, and nothing ever goes right. I like knowing that when I make a mistake, that I' ve got something working for me instead of against me to help minimize those inevitable goofs!