Arthur P

AKDoug, if you tried some good arrows you might find out you' re a better shot than you think you are. But if you' re happy with baseball size groups, more power to ya.

What do those groups look like with fixed blade broadheads? Or do you just shoot mechanicals and not even think about it?

Mechanicals are not an option for everybody. Some folks like me don' t trust them, others don' t shoot enough bow to use them. And believe it or not, .010" can make a heck of a lot of difference with broadhead accuracy, especially when it' s on one end or the other of the arrow.

kimndavid

I' ve been following this one for a while, I guess I' ll jump in the fire.[]

First of all, most carbons that you buy are not as straight as aluminum. I don' t think there' s much of an argument on that subject. unless you shoot thick walled aluminum shafts, after a week or two of shooting aluminum shafts, they probably are not going to be as straight as new alums. To me, all of this runout testing is probably not time well spent. [] But if that' s what trips your trigger I say go for it. I usually just number my arrows and keep track of any that consistently don' t hit point of aim. First I will try rotating the nock to try to bring it back in line. If that doesn' t work I' ll cull that arrow from the hunting batch.

The thing that really bothers me is people who say that just because someone buys their arrows off the rack and goes hunting, that they are disrespecting the game they hunt. The simple truth is that 99 out of 100 people can' t shoot well enough to notice differences in arrow straightness. That isn' t necessarily a bad thing. Most people know their limitations and stay within them. Everyone that bowhunts isn' t a world class archer. But that doesn' t mean they should stay home.

What amazes me is that you take a traditional bowhunter with longbow and wooden arrows and most everybody, including me, think that' s great. But you take a guy out there with a compound and immediately if his arrows aren' t perfect to a tee, he' s committed some crime against nature. [X(]

TUNE THE BOW TUNE THE ARROW TUNE THE ARCHER.....the system is only as good as the weakest link.

>>>---DAVIDP.---SILERCITY,NC--->

c903

I have never heard of the " friggn" tribe, so I cannot speak about them. However, as for other Native Americans, what you have said is not that accurate….your tolerances must be off. The American Indian generally used a short bow without much power, and shot crude arrows, That is why they had to get very close to their targets. They were known more for the firepower they could deliver.

Nevertheless, I am not a " frggn" Indian, I use real money, and it is 2003. I suspect that if you screwed an Indian and gave him less than what he expected to get for his " Wampum," he would have your scalp hanging from his quiver. Still a good idea, but not popular.

Pinwheel 12

Art, Bob Co--

Really, if one looks for " bargains" on e-bay they will get what they get. I do not sell anything there other than an occasional bow, but be advised that these type of things I mentioned above and you guys frown upon happen on a daily basis there. It was a " heads-up" , to the fact that it is indeed happening, not an insinuation that we all should do that. Pinwheel 12

Len in Maryland

Nub: To answer your question, all that we deem necessary is usage of Pine Ridge spinning tools strategically placed around the shop. It is VERY easy to see the ends of the arrows wobble and any arrow that is not straight will readily show up as well. While a dial indicator will specify the amount of wobble in a thousandth of an inch, the naked eye will easily show you what is good verses what is bad. We do have tools that utilize dial indicators if feel the need to document the problem.

AKDoug

The nice thing Arthur is that my broadheads fly exactly the same as my field points. I spent serious time making this happen and I' m very happy with the results. Same size group with my Muzzy 125' s as with my Slik Tip field points.

I don' t punch holes at fixed distances any more except for a few warm-up arrows and a weekly group testing to see if my dozen arrows I practice with are still grouping. I' m blessed to live in the woods so my 7 yr. old and I spend a lot of time kicking around our Stumper Kick Target (best target in the world ) and trying realistic hunting situtations and getting good at estimating yardage. We do this in all weather, nearly every day. I' m more concerned with being a good hunting archer than a target archer. I am by no means a slob hunter.

Too many people these days getting obsessed with the tollerances of their equipment but do not have the ability to make their equipment perform to even near that level. Many are way to quick to blame the equipment before looking at their form or mental conditioning. You and I both know their are plenty of people out there blaming arrows when in fact they still have fletch contact on their rests or overall poor bow tune. Hell, my 10 year old bow still has plenty of hunting accuracy and I' ve shot plenty of new bows that I can not shoot better. Why change?

A baseball is the same size as the 5 ring on a 5-spot 20yard indoor target. If I don' t drop outside this at 30 yards I am more than happy. I never was a 300 shooter, and I doubt I' ll ever be. I have way more mental issues shooting 5-spots than I do squirrels.... I have some sort of circle fear...LOL...

I do shoot good arrows. At this moment I shoot 2219 XX75 Breakups and I' m more than happy. However, unless an arrow starts dropping out of the group on group day, I never even bother to straightness test them.

Oh well, time to head outside and kick the target in the rain

Arthur P

I suggest reading ' Bows and Arrows of the Native Americans' by Jim Hamm and ' Cherokee Bows: How to Make and Shoot Them' by Al Herrin. You might find a new respect for those bows and arrows.

Mahly13

I personally find it AMAZING that people can actually compete in 3-D and spots with carbon arrows!!! I mean really...they are all SO bad....there must just be PILES of the things laying around that shooters thew away trying to find " good" arrows.
I concider myself to be statistically the luckiest man on Earth!!! I have bought 12 carbon arrows and got 12 that were to " spec" !!!!! Imagine that...I should be in the book of records or something!!! Guess I better go buy a lottery ticket.
More proof of my LUCK? I can actually get my broadheads to hit where my feild points do out to at least 40 yards!!!! You read right, FIXED Muzzy heads out to 40 friggen yards. Time to hit the dog track!!!
MORE proof? I don' t even match my carbon arrows " stiff side" (read most out of round side) when I pull all this off!!!!
MORE proof? I got my first ever 300 game (38x) with carbon arrows...and I didn' t even number them to find all the BAD ones!!!
MORE proof? (getting sick of this yet?) I even use (shhhh...don' t tell anyone) PUSH in nocks and threaded inserts!!!![][][]

OK... you get my point (I HOPE) fact remains, that the arrow is the LEAST important to tune. ARCHER is #1 Bow #2 arrows #3....by a LONG way.

Arthur P

I would post but I' m too busy laughing...

Mahly13

That' s why i love you Art, You and I WILL always disagree (at least about carbon arrows, mech heads, and 80% let-off bows), but we CAN be civil and put SOME humor into all of this.
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