Problems Paper Tuning
07-23-2003, 07:21 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 24
Problems Paper Tuning
I' m trying to paper tune my new bow and I' m struggling. Here is my equipment:
Hoyt Razortec
64# draw weight
26.5" draw length
Bodoodle Zapper 400 rest
Beman ICS 400 camo hunter arrows. (weighs 436 grains with practice tips)
I' m new to this but I' m following the instructions in my Hoyt owners manual. I have my paper set 6 foot from my target and am shooting 6 foot back from this. By the tear in the paper the book says that my nok is too high. I moved it down 3 times for a total of about 3/8" of an inch with no improvement. According to my bow square, the nok is low now.
Did I not go far enough down?
Also the book says it could be sign of a weak arrow. Don' t really know what this means. Has anyone had any problems with this style of Beman arrows?
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.
Hoyt Razortec
64# draw weight
26.5" draw length
Bodoodle Zapper 400 rest
Beman ICS 400 camo hunter arrows. (weighs 436 grains with practice tips)
I' m new to this but I' m following the instructions in my Hoyt owners manual. I have my paper set 6 foot from my target and am shooting 6 foot back from this. By the tear in the paper the book says that my nok is too high. I moved it down 3 times for a total of about 3/8" of an inch with no improvement. According to my bow square, the nok is low now.
Did I not go far enough down?
Also the book says it could be sign of a weak arrow. Don' t really know what this means. Has anyone had any problems with this style of Beman arrows?
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.
07-23-2003, 07:56 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
How much tear.A little high tear might not be a bad thing.You can group well even if the paper isn' t perfect but getting the broadheads tuned will be easier if the paper is good.Good doesn' t mean a perfect bullet hole and a slight tear is acceptable.
I don' t think your arrow is too light on spine(maybe a little stiff,depending on the shaft length)Not stiff enough to hurt anything) so I would check for fletching contact.The arrows could be hitting the rest and be getting thrown upward ,causing the nock high tear.
Lipstick or foot powder on the rest will show up on your fletching and that would indicate that your fletching is hitting.
You may also want to check tiller on the bow.And just for the heck of it,check the timing and see if the modules might be way out.Being way out would be the only way I could see it causing a bad tear but check it just to be sure.
I don' t think your arrow is too light on spine(maybe a little stiff,depending on the shaft length)Not stiff enough to hurt anything) so I would check for fletching contact.The arrows could be hitting the rest and be getting thrown upward ,causing the nock high tear.
Lipstick or foot powder on the rest will show up on your fletching and that would indicate that your fletching is hitting.
You may also want to check tiller on the bow.And just for the heck of it,check the timing and see if the modules might be way out.Being way out would be the only way I could see it causing a bad tear but check it just to be sure.
07-23-2003, 08:18 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
Make sure you are not getting contact with the rest.Try raising the nock and see if the tear gets better.Or spray the arrow with foot powder or cruex(yeah the jock itch stuff)I find it works best.Sounds like you may be getting some contact.
CB
CB
07-23-2003, 08:35 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 24
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
It' s a pretty good tear. I thought about the fletching having some contact with the rest so I removed the top 2 speed fins on the bodoodle and it didn' t help. So unless the bottom 2 are having some contact, that' s not it. I will try the foot spray trick tomorrow and see. The cables are withen the performance marks on the cams so I assume they are in time. I will also try raising the nok and seeing if this does anything too. Thanks for the suggestions.
07-23-2003, 09:13 PM
#5
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
Sometimes shooting broadheads and field points at the same target and adjusting the rest to make them meet will work. Shoot 2 or 3 fp and 2or3 brdhd at the same target and there will probibly be two groups. The farthest you can consistently group is best. If your brdhds hit left of the fp move the rest to the right and so on. The brdhds steer the arrow so the fp arrow will not be affected as much and eventually the two will shoot in the same spot. You of course have to use the same weight fixed blade heads. This does not work all of the time but it is a method I use often.
07-23-2003, 10:18 PM
#6
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
If your nock point is below square, it means either your tiller is off or your cam timing is off or operator error. I usually suspect tiller and operator error.
Measure from the string to where the limbs join the riser on each end of the riser. That is measuring tiller. The measurments should be the same distance for a basic tune job. Make adjustments with the limb bolts to get them equal.
And remember that paper testing is usually as much a test of your shooting form as it is of bow tune. There is an element of skill involved. If you drop your bow arm, heel the grip, torque the bow or a hundred other shooting mistakes, you' re never going to get a good tear in paper. New shooters will make a hundred different mistakes while learning.
At this stage in your development, I' d say you' d be better served by forgetting about poking holes in paper and try tuning broadheads and field points for same point of impact.
Measure from the string to where the limbs join the riser on each end of the riser. That is measuring tiller. The measurments should be the same distance for a basic tune job. Make adjustments with the limb bolts to get them equal.
And remember that paper testing is usually as much a test of your shooting form as it is of bow tune. There is an element of skill involved. If you drop your bow arm, heel the grip, torque the bow or a hundred other shooting mistakes, you' re never going to get a good tear in paper. New shooters will make a hundred different mistakes while learning.
At this stage in your development, I' d say you' d be better served by forgetting about poking holes in paper and try tuning broadheads and field points for same point of impact.
07-24-2003, 05:40 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Yapank NY USA
Posts: 3,457
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
I agree with all of the above
I would strongly suggest you look into fletching contact, Rotate the arrows on the nock to achieve better clearance. It may take a little experementing.
Also - doesn' t the bodoodle offer two diff prong tensions?? This also sounds like a rest arm that is too stiff - it will show nock high.
How do you attach release to the string - loop, nocks, eleminator buttons or what? To much nock pinch on the string can do this also.
I agree that a little nock high may be o.k. - but there I never like to leave something that I can' t fix - there is usually a reason - and its better to find out what it is
I would strongly suggest you look into fletching contact, Rotate the arrows on the nock to achieve better clearance. It may take a little experementing.
Also - doesn' t the bodoodle offer two diff prong tensions?? This also sounds like a rest arm that is too stiff - it will show nock high.
How do you attach release to the string - loop, nocks, eleminator buttons or what? To much nock pinch on the string can do this also.
I agree that a little nock high may be o.k. - but there I never like to leave something that I can' t fix - there is usually a reason - and its better to find out what it is
07-24-2003, 06:07 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jacksonville Fl USA
Posts: 533
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
It sounds to me like a contact problem....... especially since you have already moved the nock point so much....
Are you using a string loop ? (for your release)
You should LIGHTLY spray the vane area and shaft in that area with foot powder..... let it dry and shoot the arrow at a target. Retreave it and look for anyplace that shows the powder being scraped off..... this will show contact problems..... Another thing to try (if ya can) is remove the cock feather from one arrow - so YOU KNOW there will not be ANY vane/feather contact.... then shoot through the paper - if you see a dramatic improvement - BINGO.... you will then know you have a contact problem......
I went through the fire trying to tune my bow 2 years ago.... I did a LOT of reading on the subject so I know what you are going through !
Tom
Are you using a string loop ? (for your release)
You should LIGHTLY spray the vane area and shaft in that area with foot powder..... let it dry and shoot the arrow at a target. Retreave it and look for anyplace that shows the powder being scraped off..... this will show contact problems..... Another thing to try (if ya can) is remove the cock feather from one arrow - so YOU KNOW there will not be ANY vane/feather contact.... then shoot through the paper - if you see a dramatic improvement - BINGO.... you will then know you have a contact problem......
I went through the fire trying to tune my bow 2 years ago.... I did a LOT of reading on the subject so I know what you are going through !
Tom
07-24-2003, 07:06 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
When you say that you are new to this, do you mean to paper tuning, or new to the bow or archery in general?
If you are new to the bow or archery in general, this is what I would do, have a proshop set you up (or do it yourself if you can) at the correct centershot, both horizontally and vertically. Set the nock at about 1/4 - 3/8ths over 90 degrees. Get the correct arrows for the bow and shoot for a while. The tune should be fairly close to allow you to group pretty good. After you are grouping well, then do the final tuning.
The correct tuning can and will corelate with your shooting skills.
If you are new to the bow or archery in general, this is what I would do, have a proshop set you up (or do it yourself if you can) at the correct centershot, both horizontally and vertically. Set the nock at about 1/4 - 3/8ths over 90 degrees. Get the correct arrows for the bow and shoot for a while. The tune should be fairly close to allow you to group pretty good. After you are grouping well, then do the final tuning.
The correct tuning can and will corelate with your shooting skills.
07-24-2003, 07:38 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Problems Paper Tuning
Alot of good suggestions...
Most of the time when I' ve seen this tear and nock adj doesn' t take care of it, it' s either been contact or the rest tension is too stiff. Check for contact first, that' s usually the culprit. You' ll get it figured out... just be patient....someone new to tuning can go plum crazy trying to figure things out. Also I' d recommend going to easton' s site and downloading the tuning guide. It' s got alot of good info, especially for someone new to tuning.
Most of the time when I' ve seen this tear and nock adj doesn' t take care of it, it' s either been contact or the rest tension is too stiff. Check for contact first, that' s usually the culprit. You' ll get it figured out... just be patient....someone new to tuning can go plum crazy trying to figure things out. Also I' d recommend going to easton' s site and downloading the tuning guide. It' s got alot of good info, especially for someone new to tuning.