55#recurve

In the next few month's I will be getting a Predator, by champion bow's. My Peak weight will be about 70# which I will be pulling, and about 27" draw. I calcutalted a 450 grain arrow, rough estimate. The KE will be 75ftp, and the arrows rate of speed will be about 275fps, I am quite impressed. I would say when I shoot this beside my recurve, it will feel like a world of difference. I haven't shot compound in 2 years, at least not my own. I have test shot a few. But I have never shot this kind of speed, from what I recall. So it will be cool. Just wanted to say Im really impressed.
Good shooting.
Dylan

>>>>--------o--> www.championbow.com

Edited by - 55#recurve on 01/24/2002 18:04:46

ram96

55#recurve Same bow I just bought. What arrows and rest are you going to use?

55#recurve

I have a superstar, that I just took off my hunting recurve, I was thinking of going to one of the 3-D rover style rests by golden key, But I will stick with the superstar, because it allows me to shoot fingers and release. Which is a good choice to have. I will be putting a doinker mini on it, buying a scott release. The arrows I will be shooting will be roughly 27.5-27" Terminator hunters with 100Grn points 5" feathers 5570, the weight of the arrow will be with in the 453gr to 457gr range, 275fps is what the bowjackson's KE chart told me, with roughly 75fp of energy at 70 pounds. When I first get it, I will be shooting my 4560's out of it at 60# till I can get the money to get the new Terminator hunters. I will have no problems, working at wholesale sports has big advantages for prices. The cost of the bow will be next to nothing. I am quite pleased, so I will get it soon and shoot it well I am waiting for the money to build back up in my other bank account so I can buy my olympic bow. I figured it out today, that I have enough on my visa to buy it. So rather then whine about not getting my Olympic recurve soon. I will shoot the predator instead and save more for the olympic bow. WHOOO HOOO. God bless visa.
LOL.
Good shooting.
Dylan

>>>>--------o-->

Matt / PA

55# Recurve......That looks like a real nice bow! I've wondered about Champion bows, but never got a chance to shoot one.

I do have some bad news for you however!.....I'm not , I REPEAT NOT, slamming your bow. Sounds like a good one for sure!
What I have to tell you might hurt a bit <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> You aren't going to get close to that KE # you are hoping for, and I don't want you to be dissapointed when you see th eresults first hand.
I'll explain.......Please don't be mad at me, I'm just trying to help you out understanding what you are going to get because you stated you have limited experience with a compound.

They get the IBO speed at 30&quot;/70# and a 350 grain arrow.....the IBO listed for your bow is 308fps (not too shabby!
OK here's where the let down comes......You might get close to that 275 speed with that 450 grain arrow at a 30&quot; draw. But you're not going to get CLOSE at 27&quot;

At 27&quot; your bow will probably be shooting the 350 grain arrow around 275-280fps.
Right away knock approx 30fps off for the 3&quot; loss of draw length, add anything to the string and you are going to lose even more. Silencers , a peep w/ tube, nock sets, etc. all rob speed pretty quick.......a fully loaded string could cost you 15fps or more.
Keep it light and simple.

But for the sake of argument lets say you have NOTHING on your string......From my experience with todays super efficient fast bows you're going to lose probably 1fps for every 2.5/ 3grains increase in arrow weight.(that's an approx) some will say every 6grains but I think that goes back to less efficient compounds of a few years ago.

ANyway......here comes the rest of the bad news.
If your bow will shoot that same 350 grain arrow at 280fps, it's going to shoot that 450 graing hunting arrow at approximately 248 fps.
Add a nock set, a small peep and catwiskers and you are now looking at probably 235+/- a few fps for that set-up.

That equates to approximately 57ft/lbs of KE.
I'm not trying to burst your bubble trust me!.....we're all friends here. I just really don't want you have a nervous breakdown the first time you shoot it thru a chrono and you think it's broke!

That's the beauty of having long arms......a 30&quot; draw gives you such a huge advantage in bow performance. (Thanks mom )

Now for the good news!.......that's still MORE THAN ENOUGH to effectively hunt with....and isn't too shabby, it's just not going to be what you expected. But you know what?..... It's gonna be quiet, accurate and a load of fun to shoot, and will take a deer as cleanly as it would at 30&quot; in my hands. It will still make your recurve look like a turtle!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
ENJOY IT!

Everything i estimated here is just that an estimate, but from my experience shooting all sorts of compounds over the years......my estimate is going to be pretty close. Maybe a little low.......maybe a little high <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle> But in any event it's gonna be really close.




Edited by - Matt / PA on 01/24/2002 19:06:35

SPL001

Matt - I envy you and your 30&quot; draw length. I have to bend down to tie my shoes [. I have to muddle along with my 28.5 draw. Ok so I don't have to bend down alot to tie em'.

Steve

55#recurve

So for arguments sake are you saying that Steve Jacksons sight isnt right? That's where I did all of my measurments, with bow weight, arrow weight, drawlenght and so on. You are most likely right, but I figured his KE, SPEED averaging chart was pretty good? Hmmmm I'll go back and try it again. I added 40grains worth of stuff to my string. Thats the numbers it gave me. Im have 12 years experience, Last 4-5years with an olympic recurve. So my compound experience isn't to bad. Thanks for the heads up though.
Good shooting.
Dylan
Oh and at 70# 450grn is about 6.4gpp
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;--------o--&gt; www.bowjackson.com

Edited by - 55#recurve on 01/24/2002 19:28:49

Edited by - 55#recurve on 01/24/2002 19:30:00

55#recurve

what is SE/PDF_RATIO? I put mine at 2.

>>>>--------o-->

Matt / PA

Dylan,

Just trust me......You will get close to the numbers you mentioned, but at a 30&quot; draw.
It's that simple.
You're doing something wrong.....that's for sure.

Let me put it in a real world example that will hit home for you.....
I have a 30&quot; draw......I shot my BowTech Mighty Mite at 70# 350 grain arrow and I got 318fps.(that's 10fps faster than your bow's listed speed of 308)
With a 450 grain arrow my bow shot 282fps.....that's 76-77ftlbs of energy.

With your bow EVEN AT 30&quot; DRAW LENGTH with the stated IBO speed of 308 for the &quot;Predator&quot; (nothing on the string).......your bow is putting out 74ft lbs of KE.
That's about as high as you can hope for with a 30&quot; draw.

Now you take your 27&quot; draw into the equation and things go downhill VERY fast.

Trust me Dylan......I'm very much right. Not being a smart A$$. I'm trying to help you understand all that tech stuff.......this is &quot;Real World&quot; what your bow IS going to do.
SPF/De ratio is like some sort of sunscreen rating or something I think!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> You're probably safe to shoot in a bright sun for a few hours with the numbers you are coming up with........but they aren't giving you the truth as to what your bow is doing for you.

I'm well aware of Steve's site....I use it all the time it's great. But I don't try to estimate things on it. I shoot my bows thru a chron THEN go see what it is doing energy wise and with respect to trajectory.
This isn't an opinion Dylan......it really is a fact.
I'm not questioning your archery experience.......but You have to use common sense before you even get into playing with numbers etc.......Are you really expecting a bow that is going to put out 74 ft/lbs of KE at <font color=red>30&quot;</font id=red> draw be able to INCREASE to 75 when you are losing 3&quot; of draw length??......Think about it bud.
Short arms suck......it's a fact of life.
Your BBS friend.....Matt




Edited by - Matt / PA on 01/24/2002 20:13:21

55#recurve

Hey if I get 250-2400DD I will be happy. I don't think my old polaris, or polarisexpress was going that fast, or any compound I've owned.
I may go to CX's to lighten up a bit, I may even shoot the CHEETAH's by carbon tech. I will see later on. Thanks for the info.
Dylan

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;--------o--&gt; Oh and by the way I am very technically inclined, with archery, just not Physics, thats why Im taking a class this semester.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - 55#recurve on 01/24/2002 20:57:01

JeffB

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
what is SE/PDF_RATIO? I put mine at 2.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;--------o--&gt;
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

This is where your mistake is. Very few if any bows approach anything around 1.5 se/pdf.

1.25-1.3 is quiet efficient.

And while they make a really nice bow, Champion seriously inflates speed figures (like just about everyone else)

JeffB