Len in Maryland

TFOX:

If you have a NEW Hoyt, you could possibly see a level " bubble" in the static and dynamic states. When looking at nock travel, we have the Apple Ultra Tuning Machine. We can look at nock travel throughout the entire draw cycle. You' d be surprised at the different, and unique, nock travels we' ve seen over the years. From those manufacturers who have always claimed that they had level nock travel, to those who have no clue (and you' d be surprised who they are), we seen a variety.

Sometimes you will start with a level arrow and then have it drop up to 1/2" before coming back up to level at the end of the cycle. That' s why you can' t do just a dynamic and static check.

If you, or anyone else, ever get to Baltimore, stop by and I' ll show you our data.

PW12:

Darton has also gone through about 4 iterations of the C/P/S to improve it over time. Even though the original concept was purchased from an inventor, modifying and implimenting it into a progressive archery market has been a diligent task by Rex Darlington at Darton. The first series were very smooth pulling and not so fast. As time went on, they learned to keep it much smoother pulling than other cams doing the same speed, increase the speed, and make it easier to tune. The timing marks were added and really helped in achieving a quicker and more precise tuning method. The marks were one of the patentable items.

Darton also has a patent on their recurve limbs. These limbs have a second ' sweet' spot and help to increase speed while maintaining a smoother draw. If Merlin could talk Darton into utilizing this patent, it might be very beneficial to their Pro Fusion limb technology.

Rack-attack

Solo cams will go away!

Just long enough for you and me to forget about them.

Then they will be " re-invented" as better than what we are shooting.

And we will shoot solos again. And the dually will go away

Just long enough............................................ .............

PABowhntr

Since the issue of nock travel has been introduced I would question whether any of you has noticed Mathews newest advertisement? I happened to pick up the latest issue of Bowhunting America last night down at the shop and was surprised to find a full two page advertisement for Mathews.

Now that is obviously not a shocker. What was a shocker was the fact that the entire advertisement was really about the Hoyt Cam and a Half bows. The ad went into specific detail citing what specifically was wrong with the design and it gave several graphic examples of the nock travel and timing issues found on the Cam.5.

I will reserve my opinion on the ad until after I determine if others have also seen it.

Straightarrow

PABowhtr,

I haven' t seen the ad, but even if I had, I would not know what to make of it. Most of us, myself included, have no way of evaluating nock travel. We are at the mercy of what others say about it. If there was some objective testing done by a company that has no affliation with a bow manufacturer, then those results might be something we could go by. However, with each manufacturer and sales reps, saying theirs is best, we are kind left on the sidelines while they throw jabs at each other.

If a company makes a claim about speed, quietness or vibration, it' s pretty easy to evaluate. When they start taking about nock travel, I just sit there with my mouth open and my eyes glazed. Who do you believe?

Big John

TFox- the problems with Hoyt were string stretch causing it to go out of time or " sync" , causing erradic arrow flight. They are advertized with no timing. When I ran into it recently I did some research into the problem which took me to archery talk and several pages of obvious displeasure with the cam&1/2, and the terrible time one had trying to get it matched again. My call to hoyt mirrored those people' s displeasure, told there was no problem, yet there it was hitting everyone in the face. At this same time Hoyt was pleading guilty to stealing the patent from Darton, which didn' t help matters any.

ijimmy

I agree Big John It aint all its cracked up to be , love the grip , love the fact that its dead quiet , but it does go out of tune despite what some will have you to belive . All in all its one of the more dificult systems to tune IMO .

PABowhntr

Straightarrow,

I agree with you and must admit that many times I am left with judging such statements by how they affect the practical performance of the bow. In the case of nock travel or an out of synch cam I would look to how it impacts accuracy and consistancy.

To be entirely honest I do not know what to make of the advertisement. On one hand I am glad to see a manufacturer being called to task on some of their advertising claims. On the other hand I find it very ironic that Mathews is the one doing it.

Buck Magnet

The thing that is funny to me is that some people, even people who are very experiences in archery, expect a bow to perform absolutely perfectly and never need any adjustment. Lets face it guys, bow require tunings, and every bow will have a problem over time that needs to be fixed. You can' t just take a bow off a shelf and have it mysteriously performing perfectly and never have to worry about it again.

In my opinion, single cams, dual cams, and hybrid systems all have their places in archery and will stay here. Why? Because none of them is perfect. Until a " perfect" cam system comes out, we aren' t going ot loose any design.

Every archery company has its gimicks, which might be true but are " over-done" . Hoyt has the whole no-tuning and level nock travel thing, High Country has the whole 400 f.p.s. thing, and Mathews, well, just read one of their advertisments and pick.

Lets face it guys, moderm compound bows take WORK to tune and maintain. It is something that has to be done to get the best out of your bow. It just seems like people want to forget about this part of archery now. [:' (]

TFOX

Big Jonn.Have you been over to archery talk lately?There is a thread right now about how some are purpously taking the bows out of time and not affecting impact of the arrow.My bow was slightly out of time and there was no noticable change in the impact point of the arrow.The only problem I had was spongy feeling wall and that made it difficult for me to hold.


I have a friend that is shooting his protec with the cams out of time.The feel of the wall doesn' t bother him and he has finished first or second in just about every tourney we have been to localy this year.


The issue is with cable stretch more than string stretch.I believe that improper cable lengths are what is causing most of the problems.The person with the protec also had his strings and cables made by the same person.


Len I would love to come by but I don' t see me making my way up there anytime soon.

I think I will get together with my friend that has the machine and do some testing for myself.I know this person to be an absolute 2 cam person and he really liked the cam 1/2.He even said that he might have to get one for himself.He also has a few bows with world records that he tuned to his credit so I do trust him.I do not know if he checked to see if the nock stayed level throughout the draw cycle but I will see.

Straightarrow

I have a feeling the reason for this, is that there are but a few manufacturers who have the money to engage in an advertisement war, otherwise I think we' d see a lot more doing it. It' s like Pepsi vs. Coke. They constantly go directly at each other in ads, because they' re the only ones with the money and the only ones who matter as opposition. In my opinion, every manufacturer would do this type of advertising, if they had the money. It' s nothing but a sales tactic and I for one, pay no attention to advertisement from manufacturers. It' s a game that I refuse to fall prey to, and they' re either all guilty or they don' t have to money to participate. There are no saints out there in the business world, where the winners take no prisoners.