AlaskanLarge

I definetly do not see it as getting BH' s to imitate FP' s. With the proper spine and tune your BH' s should not be plaining out of your bow. If they are not a FP should follow them until air drag begins to slow the BH arrow to a point that they hit lower. That distance for me is beyond 60 yards, up to that point at every distance BH' s and FP' s group together for me. My groups are tight to my max yardage of forty and I have no problem getting pass through' s on Moose, Caribou, Grizzly' s, Black Bears or deer, so I don' t see how this has hurt me in the least.

c903

WHY! [:' (]

I know, I know......!!!

But you, and other " middle-of-the-road" tuning advocates are missing the point, or maybe not!

You do not hunt animals with " middle-of-the- road" mentality, and you do not shoot at animals with " middle-of-the-road" adjustments. Otherwise, in all probability, your gear will produce " middle-of-the-road" performance with " middle-of-the-road" results; and days later, if lucky, someone might find a dead and rotting carcass in the " middle of the road."

Live animals are not inanimate targets filled with Styrofoam! [:@]

Len in Maryland

Let me clarify myself. I thought that I did; but, because of your comments/tone, it seems probable that I didn' t.

The tuning should be done with both FPs and BHs until they are hitting well within 2 inches at 20 yards. Once this is done, a slight rest or sight change to get them to compensate for the differences would be the ' middle of the road' . This will allow the hunter to utilize the same equipment with better confidence for practice and hunting.

If we can instill a desire to tune to a level of matching FTs and BHs, we' ve seen an overall better tuning situation than the alternative. If you just tell someone to ' move their sight' , we' ve seen much less desirable results.

And I, like many here, are able to get FTs and BHs to hit the same within normal hunting distances. Testimony here by other hunters should be considered.

Fletchead

O.k C 903, first we paper tune with fpts. Get good tears. Now we bareshaft if were going with different shafts to get spine. If they hit the same then we set yardages for fpts. and french tune and minor rest changes a tad there. Paper tune again to make sure. Screw on bhds. and check impact. If youve done all of the above properly, they will hit very close, but usually low out to the longer yardages because of the f.o.c. difference. Come hunting season I will tweak my pins down just a tad. Anyway If there not we move the rest in very small increments to move fpts. and bhds. together. Once thats done paper again to check tears. For me if Ive done all of the above properly tears are still perfect, because the setup of arrow to bow was good. By this time the bow will of course shoot better than I can. Can someone explain how this is middle of the road tuning.

Rack-attack

Where is the group tuning of broad heads?

How do you know that the tune you described will achieve the BEST POSSIBLE bh groups from your setup.

If the whole point of tuning is to achieve the best bh groups possible - how does the fact that you have the same POI prove that.

How will you ever know if you do not forget about the FP' s and the paper, and the bare shafts and group tune the bh' s out to yardage?

TFOX

Fletchhead,I agree with most of what you said but I disagree that a broadhed is hitting lower because of foc.I keep my foc the same and it still hits low at 40.Not much,only an inch, but it is low.The reason is there is just more surface area on a broadhead and that increases drag and that in turn will make it lose downrange velocity.Therefore making it shoot low.


I aparently don' t think it is as critical to have the both hitting the same but I do agree that they should be close.I think the individual broadheads will affect the outcome.Some broadheads will just fly better than others.IMO the ones that fly more like fieldpoints are better.


If my bow is group tuned,paper tuned,bare shaft tuned and is shooting at its optimum with field points and you screw on broadheads and are hitting a 3" circle at 40 yards consistantly then I would say that is not anywhere near a middle of the road setup.That is a darn good setup that is the most efficient and the most forgiving a person could ask for.That isn' t possible with all broadheads,bows or shooters but if evrything is good then that is just what happens.IMHO[8D]

Nubbb

c903

You have too much time on your hands my friend. I know you must love to see yourself in print as you pontificate aimlessly.

I am in agreement with Len. When I have some time, I will figure out how to upload video and I will post some high speed video of research that we have done with our shooting machines. I think you will find it more interesting and more informative than simply quoting Bob Ragsdale. Our machine shot research also bears out when hand shooting.

Though we have done research on endless combinations, try taking some properly spined ACCs for the bow you are shooting and set them up with 4 inch feathers and a Muzzy 90 gr. 4 blade broadhead (a terrific and deadly head) and group tune for your best groups at 70 meters. Then shoot for best groups with field points. Tell me how many thousands of and inch you had to move your rest vertically and horizontally. Then tell me how far your groups landed from each other.

Have fun! We do.

c903

Thank you, Rack! Simply said and monumentally correct.

Len: No tone! Weakness of the silent chat. Jus' sippin' coffee and banging 2 keyboards. I am serious, but with ***s and grins.

Nubb:

Why would I want to fine-tune my shafts, broadhead type, to group at, roughly, 76-yards? I am hunting deer, not " clouting." Although I used to, but not for a long time. I do not use a " shooting machine" to hunt with. Too heavy and too noisy. Additionally, I do not use ACC, 4" feathers, or 4-blade 90-gr. heads. Too light of a setup for me.

As for the your " shooting machine" bearing out the " hand" shots; that is great and I am happy for you. However, I would prefer to have the hands that I shoot with bear out my " hand shots.

As for the main point of your post, I am not quite sure what your point really is. If I am connecting, you are saying to:

First, shoot and tune my broadhead shafts to group at 76-yards.
Next, shoot my fieldpoint shafts to group at 76-yards.

After I do the shooting of the shafts mounted with different heads, I am suppose to determine if any " thousands of an inch" vertical and/or horizontal adjustment of my sight is necessary. Once I do that, I am to tell you how far apart, if any, the grouping of the two differently mounted shafts were.

That is where I lose you and I am left asking you, " AND?" I just do not catch your drift. I can read that you are still trying to imitate the flight and grouping of two differently mounted shafts, but in this case you are shooting the broadheads for groups -first, but still are trying to clone the grouping of the fieldpoint mounted shafts with the grouping of the broadheads. ??????

Once I fine-tune my broadheads, the heads I hunt large game with, and they are consistently and accurately grouping at my POI….35-yards generally, 40-yard max; from that time, and until the hunting season is over, I really do not care if my fieldpoint shafts were to land in the next county.

As for this comment,

there are several things you can do with it (comment), but it would be easier for you and on you to just push that little " Green" button that is located just above and to the right of your ID.

TFOX

I have a question for you c903.After tuning your broadheads to group at 35 yards,have you gone back and checked to see where your field tips hit,just for sh$%#@ts and giggles.If you are truly tuning the broadheads and not just moving your sight to compensate.My quess would be the field points will be close to the broadheads.Within 2-3" .

Jerry/Pa

I think you guys are all saying the same thing. What I see is a major factor for most B/H' s is spine. You can get away with a weak or stiff arrow with F/P because the fletching will help in the recovery. With B/H' s the blades will take over and stear the arrow unless you have 8" fletching. What I think the middle of the road implies is all groups (F/P,B/S&B/H) are hitting in the horizonal plain. Which will indicate good spine,center shot and sight line. The vertical line may vary slighly because of drag(B/H),weight and FOC(B/S). All to a comparision of F/P. So unless your B/H or larger fletching changes the spine of the arrow and puts you out of your F/P range all should group within an inch or two.

I think the difference between the two schools of tuning is the process you use to achive the spine,nocking point and center shot. Once these are esatblished the fine tuning will only go as far as your ability.

Here is a couple questions? What is the tolerence of center shot? Is it exact per bow or will one shooter have a different center shot then another shooting the same arrow form the same bow. Does spine effect center shot? If I shoot two different spined arrow from the same bow will I have to adjust center shot per arrow? JERRY




















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