Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
04-14-2003, 08:05 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern PA USA
Posts: 1,398
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
IMO, shooting without a peep or No Peep can cost you some accuracy, especially from odd positions. I have tried to shoot without a peep a few times, and was always frustrated with inconsistency past 30 yards.
Two years ago, I had a situation where a buck came in at last light, and I could clearly see the fiber optic pin through the peep, but not the deer, or at least not well enough to pick a spot to aim at. This has happened a few times with doe as well.[:' (]
I started using a different system to anchor. The cock fletch out touches my lip, and a kisser touches my nose at my anchor point. Using this anchor, and practicing with it a lot has improved my accuracy a great deal. Last spring and summer, I was pretty consistently nailing a 2" spot at 40 yards without a peep. I did practice from odd positions, and from my tree stand until I was hitting well under these circumstances as well. When the doe presented me with a shot last fall, it was getting pretty dark on a cloudy day. I could clearly see the spot I wanted to aim at as well as my pin, and was able to make a good shot.
There are definite pros and cons to shooting without a peep sight. One pro right now is the fact that there is a lot of time between now and deer season to see if this will really work for you in all situations. It may not, but it also might.
Two years ago, I had a situation where a buck came in at last light, and I could clearly see the fiber optic pin through the peep, but not the deer, or at least not well enough to pick a spot to aim at. This has happened a few times with doe as well.[:' (]
I started using a different system to anchor. The cock fletch out touches my lip, and a kisser touches my nose at my anchor point. Using this anchor, and practicing with it a lot has improved my accuracy a great deal. Last spring and summer, I was pretty consistently nailing a 2" spot at 40 yards without a peep. I did practice from odd positions, and from my tree stand until I was hitting well under these circumstances as well. When the doe presented me with a shot last fall, it was getting pretty dark on a cloudy day. I could clearly see the spot I wanted to aim at as well as my pin, and was able to make a good shot.
There are definite pros and cons to shooting without a peep sight. One pro right now is the fact that there is a lot of time between now and deer season to see if this will really work for you in all situations. It may not
, but it also might.
04-14-2003, 08:25 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
BM, doing away with your peep site is definately doable for a hunting bow. It does allow you to see better in lower light conditions.
There are two reasons why I personally use them for hunting.
1. When you have a good hunting peep and it becomes dark enough to prevent you from seeing good enough to shoot at a deer with total confidence, it is too dark to film, and probably past legal shooting time.
2. Lets say you are not worried about filming, our legal shooting time.....when it gets too dark for a regular peep site, can you tell for sure which side of your bowstring your pins are on.
Try it in broad daylight, purposely look on one side of your string and shoot a couple arrows at 20 yards. Now look down the other side of your string and shoot at 20 yards. See how much your two groups are apart.
They are further apart than I want to deal with.
You can shoot accurately without a peep site without a doubt.
There is one other thing that is without doubt....you can shoot better with one!
There are two reasons why I personally use them for hunting.
1. When you have a good hunting peep and it becomes dark enough to prevent you from seeing good enough to shoot at a deer with total confidence, it is too dark to film, and probably past legal shooting time.
2. Lets say you are not worried about filming, our legal shooting time.....when it gets too dark for a regular peep site, can you tell for sure which side of your bowstring your pins are on.
Try it in broad daylight, purposely look on one side of your string and shoot a couple arrows at 20 yards. Now look down the other side of your string and shoot at 20 yards. See how much your two groups are apart.
They are further apart than I want to deal with.
You can shoot accurately without a peep site without a doubt.
There is one other thing that is without doubt....you can shoot better with one!
04-14-2003, 10:12 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
You will be more accurate,especially at longer ranges,with a peep.Why else would every target archer use them?Now, you can be accurate enough at normal hunting ranges if you are consistent with your anchor.But be sure to put on your hat,headnet etc. and get in your stand and practice shooting at odd angles.That is where you will have problems.I' ve shot with and without the peep.I am more accurate with the peep. The only negative is you lose a little shooting time at dusk.But if you can' t see thru the peep it' s probably past legal shooting hours anyway.To me it' s a small trade off for being more consistent and accurate.
CB
CB
04-14-2003, 11:02 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
Cajun
Considering that a peep sight is just a different device to enable a shooter to establish a consistent head position and to place his or her sighting eye in the same location e.g. height and horizontal position, how is that a peep sight enables better accuracy at greater distances?
Additionally, What target shooters use is not always necessary or good for bowhunters to use.
In addition, how does a peep sight eliminate the cumbering of a hat or cap bill or rim, a head-net, face mask, etc? I do not wear head-cover that has a protruding bill or rim, and I never wear any material on my face that can change my anchor or become snagged in the string….especially a head-net.
I will agree that there are shooters who will not put the necessary effort into learning to shoot well without certain aids, and require certain aids (devices) to compensate for his or her self imposed shooting deficiency. But to believe that no one can shoot as consistently accurate without a peep as someone who uses a peep, or that a peep is the only rear alignment device that works, is a gross misconception.
Considering that a peep sight is just a different device to enable a shooter to establish a consistent head position and to place his or her sighting eye in the same location e.g. height and horizontal position, how is that a peep sight enables better accuracy at greater distances?
Additionally, What target shooters use is not always necessary or good for bowhunters to use.
In addition, how does a peep sight eliminate the cumbering of a hat or cap bill or rim, a head-net, face mask, etc? I do not wear head-cover that has a protruding bill or rim, and I never wear any material on my face that can change my anchor or become snagged in the string….especially a head-net.
I will agree that there are shooters who will not put the necessary effort into learning to shoot well without certain aids, and require certain aids (devices) to compensate for his or her self imposed shooting deficiency. But to believe that no one can shoot as consistently accurate without a peep as someone who uses a peep, or that a peep is the only rear alignment device that works, is a gross misconception.
04-14-2003, 11:52 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
I will agree that there are shooters who will not put the necessary effort into learning to shoot well without certain aids, and require certain aids (devices) to compensate for his or her self imposed shooting deficiency
Probably could do away with those pesky wheels at the end of the limbs too!
Lets wake up and smell the coffee, if you or ANYONE, could be every bit as accurate without a peep sight, they would not be used.
Are they an absolute for hunting? Heck no.
Are they an absolute for target shooting?(spots or 3-D) Only if you want to win!
04-15-2003, 01:24 AM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Walker LA USA
Posts: 443
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
A peep sight not only serves as a device to align the eye with the sight,ie anchor position.But it serves as a visual alignment aid because you can center the pin in the peep.Ever notice that target archers use small apperatures on their peeps.If you are not using a peep sight you are(usually)aligning the side of the string with the pin.If the pin is a hair off of the string you may not notice.At twenty or thirty yards this error may not be significant.At 40-50 yards it will be.A peep makes it easier to maintain a consistent sight picture.
My point about target shooters using peeps was meant to show that using a peep is more accurate.
You missed my point here.Without a peep sight it is alot easier to have inconsistencies in anchor or sight alignment.This is made alot worse during actual hunting conditions.The point is you need to practice in your hunting clothes from a stand at different angles to be sure you can be consistent with your anchor.
As for the last point,yes you can get quite good without a peep at hunting ranges.hell I' ve watched byron ferguson shoot poker chips out of the air with a longbow shooting instintive.But you won' t win the IBO tripple crown shooting without one either.The time you spend learning to shoot without a peep could be better spent learning back tension and proper form imho.
CB
My point about target shooters using peeps was meant to show that using a peep is more accurate.
You missed my point here.Without a peep sight it is alot easier to have inconsistencies in anchor or sight alignment.This is made alot worse during actual hunting conditions.The point is you need to practice in your hunting clothes from a stand at different angles to be sure you can be consistent with your anchor.
As for the last point,yes you can get quite good without a peep at hunting ranges.hell I' ve watched byron ferguson shoot poker chips out of the air with a longbow shooting instintive.But you won' t win the IBO tripple crown shooting without one either.The time you spend learning to shoot without a peep could be better spent learning back tension and proper form imho.
CB
04-15-2003, 05:32 AM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
There are pros and cons to every option available to hunters. We could all strive for the utmost accuracy and put on those 3 foot stabilizers, sights with scopes extending a foot out in front of the bow. We could use bows that have 40" + ATAs, while shooting back tension releases. We could use peeps with the smallest holes, on bows with extremely low draw weights for easy pulling.
Now the question is, how much of this do you need to kill an animal at the ranges you typically shoot at? Which of these options can you drop in favor of a method more suitable to hunting conditions. If you give up a 1/2" of accuracy, will it matter if you' re shooting at a deer at 12 yards, in a dense forest, 3 minutes before end of legal shooting? Given the senerios you' re likely to encounter while hunting, what are the best options for you?
For me, in my hunting situations, I' m completely convinced that I will take more deer without a peep, than with one - many more. My shots are typically very close in very dense hardwoods. Most of the opportunities I get for a shot, occur when lighting is poor - the beginning and end of shooting times, in dense cover. In more than 30 years of bowhunting deer, I' ve experienced many lost opportunities because of poor equipment choices, like peeps. I don' t ever remember losing an opportunity because I thought I was not accurate enough without a peep, and I only used a peep for 3 of those years. It' s up to each of us to decide which options will allow us more opportunities to be a successful hunter. For me, the choice is clear. I won' t be using a 3' stabilizer or a peep, regardless of how much more accurate either makes me.
Now the question is, how much of this do you need to kill an animal at the ranges you typically shoot at? Which of these options can you drop in favor of a method more suitable to hunting conditions. If you give up a 1/2" of accuracy, will it matter if you' re shooting at a deer at 12 yards, in a dense forest, 3 minutes before end of legal shooting? Given the senerios you' re likely to encounter while hunting, what are the best options for you?
For me, in my hunting situations, I' m completely convinced that I will take more deer without a peep, than with one - many more. My shots are typically very close in very dense hardwoods. Most of the opportunities I get for a shot, occur when lighting is poor - the beginning and end of shooting times, in dense cover. In more than 30 years of bowhunting deer, I' ve experienced many lost opportunities because of poor equipment choices, like peeps. I don' t ever remember losing an opportunity because I thought I was not accurate enough without a peep, and I only used a peep for 3 of those years. It' s up to each of us to decide which options will allow us more opportunities to be a successful hunter. For me, the choice is clear. I won' t be using a 3' stabilizer or a peep, regardless of how much more accurate either makes me.
04-15-2003, 11:18 AM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
Big Country
Unless the circumstances made it an absolute necessity, I will not take a 40-50 yard. However, using field points or broadheads, I can put my shafts in the kill zone up to 50 yards, from a stand, using different body positions to shoot from. I also know that I am not the only " ANYONE" that does not use a peep and can shoot with good hunting accuracy.
Do not misunderstand. If a person chooses to use a peep-sight, or knows he or she shoots better with a peep-sight, that is their call and their preference/use should not invite ridicule. However, to say that a peep-sight is mandatory, and that a bowHUNTER cannot shoot as accurate without a peep is ridiculous.
If the shooter comprehends the necessity of a consistent anchor and eye alignment, knows how to establish reference points tailored for the shooter, and practices until he or she is consistently accurate without having to think about his/her anchor/alignment, a bowhunter can be just as accurate without a peep-sight as someone using a peep-sight
Some here keep referring to target shooting, extreme shooting distances, and hair-width alignment to justify the use of a peep. I am talking about hunting conditions and normal shooting distances when hunting. Big difference. If you were to look at two dead dear, lying side-by-side, both having a hit in the kill zone, I would wager big money that no one can tell which hit was made by the peep-sight shooter, and which hit was made by the shooter not using a peep-sight.
Regardless who may be making the shot, peep user or not, I doubt that either shooter has telephoto vision and can select a particular hair on the deer to put the pin on. Therefore, that means that either shooter is placing his/her pin in a " judged" center of a " general" area commonly known as the " kill zone," and hopes that the shaft will, at least, hit somewhere in the 8" -9" diameter vital area should Mr. Murphy arrive on the scene just as the arrow is released.
If a peep-sight always assures best accuracy, why do shooters who use a peep sight miss or just wound?
My primary point is to point out, that one does not need all the junk that is out there today for the purpose of bowhunting accuracy and speed. Why give up reliability and durability for supposed shooting edges that mean very little in the field? How many " over-junked" shooters have equipment failures in the field, or every minute they are on their stand they are praying that a particular piece of complex gear does not malfunction? How many misses or wounding without recovery occurs because a of malfunctioning or improperly adjusted complex gear, or the bow supersedes the overall skill of the shooter?
In 39 years of hunting, using several types of bows equipped with utilitarian accessories, I have never had one malfunction with any of my hunting setups, and I have eaten a lot of venison. Most of all, I have always been able to spend all of my physical and mental time enjoying just the hunt. I never have to allot my gear a second of thought or concern.
…if you or ANYONE, could be every bit as accurate without a peep sight, they would not be used.
Do not misunderstand. If a person chooses to use a peep-sight, or knows he or she shoots better with a peep-sight, that is their call and their preference/use should not invite ridicule. However, to say that a peep-sight is mandatory, and that a bowHUNTER cannot shoot as accurate without a peep is ridiculous.
If the shooter comprehends the necessity of a consistent anchor and eye alignment, knows how to establish reference points tailored for the shooter, and practices until he or she is consistently accurate without having to think about his/her anchor/alignment, a bowhunter can be just as accurate without a peep-sight as someone using a peep-sight
Some here keep referring to target shooting, extreme shooting distances, and hair-width alignment to justify the use of a peep. I am talking about hunting conditions and normal shooting distances when hunting. Big difference. If you were to look at two dead dear, lying side-by-side, both having a hit in the kill zone, I would wager big money that no one can tell which hit was made by the peep-sight shooter, and which hit was made by the shooter not using a peep-sight.
Regardless who may be making the shot, peep user or not, I doubt that either shooter has telephoto vision and can select a particular hair on the deer to put the pin on. Therefore, that means that either shooter is placing his/her pin in a " judged" center of a " general" area commonly known as the " kill zone," and hopes that the shaft will, at least, hit somewhere in the 8" -9" diameter vital area should Mr. Murphy arrive on the scene just as the arrow is released.
If a peep-sight always assures best accuracy, why do shooters who use a peep sight miss or just wound?
My primary point is to point out, that one does not need all the junk that is out there today for the purpose of bowhunting accuracy and speed. Why give up reliability and durability for supposed shooting edges that mean very little in the field? How many " over-junked" shooters have equipment failures in the field, or every minute they are on their stand they are praying that a particular piece of complex gear does not malfunction? How many misses or wounding without recovery occurs because a of malfunctioning or improperly adjusted complex gear, or the bow supersedes the overall skill of the shooter?
In 39 years of hunting, using several types of bows equipped with utilitarian accessories, I have never had one malfunction with any of my hunting setups, and I have eaten a lot of venison. Most of all, I have always been able to spend all of my physical and mental time enjoying just the hunt. I never have to allot my gear a second of thought or concern.
04-15-2003, 11:53 AM
#19
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
No, a peep sight definitely is not needed provided you find other ways to correctly align your head/line of sight. However, I would still suggest going to a no-peep first and then going with nothing at all. The No peep will train you to some extent in terms of head position, grip position, etc.... Once it becomes second nature to you then you probably will not use it further.
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
04-15-2003, 01:35 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Going Without A Peep Sight!!!! Leads to a Robinhood.
PA
The only information I have about a " No-Peep" is what I read (ad and user comments). Therefore, I am extremely limited to debate the value of a " No-Peep." However, it is just another device, seemingly complex to adjust and possibly prone to failure under hunting conditions. I consider the device an unnecessary accessory that can produce dependence.
In addition, it appears the accessory can create a " low light" predicament as the peep sight can. " No-Peep' s ad is, IMO, controversial. In one statement, the manufacturer indicates that the device is to assist in developing proper shooting form, in another statement the manufacturer indicates that the device is sighting accessory and replaces the need for any type of rear sight.
If the accessory is a sighting device, how is it that one can take it off after acquiring a conditioned form? If the " No-Peep" is not a sight, why do so many that intend to try it, or do use it, believe it is a rear sight?
How does it assure your sighting eye is at the right height and alignment? It is possible, using the gadget, that your eye and anchor can be wrong, and that the shooter manipulates the centering of the appliance with his or her bow hand, rather than adjusting anchor and eye?
Like I said, I do not have any personal experience with the " No-Peep," but the one thing that negatively strikes me the most, is the (seemingly) need to take your eye off the pin and the quarry; even momentarily.
Last, how is it that so many shooters learn to shoot extremely well without using such an apparatus as the " No-Peep?"
The only information I have about a " No-Peep" is what I read (ad and user comments). Therefore, I am extremely limited to debate the value of a " No-Peep." However, it is just another device, seemingly complex to adjust and possibly prone to failure under hunting conditions. I consider the device an unnecessary accessory that can produce dependence.
In addition, it appears the accessory can create a " low light" predicament as the peep sight can. " No-Peep' s ad is, IMO, controversial. In one statement, the manufacturer indicates that the device is to assist in developing proper shooting form, in another statement the manufacturer indicates that the device is sighting accessory and replaces the need for any type of rear sight.
If the accessory is a sighting device, how is it that one can take it off after acquiring a conditioned form? If the " No-Peep" is not a sight, why do so many that intend to try it, or do use it, believe it is a rear sight?
How does it assure your sighting eye is at the right height and alignment? It is possible, using the gadget, that your eye and anchor can be wrong, and that the shooter manipulates the centering of the appliance with his or her bow hand, rather than adjusting anchor and eye?
Like I said, I do not have any personal experience with the " No-Peep," but the one thing that negatively strikes me the most, is the (seemingly) need to take your eye off the pin and the quarry; even momentarily.
Last, how is it that so many shooters learn to shoot extremely well without using such an apparatus as the " No-Peep?"