JeffB

Anyone done any real world testing on straightness and spine tolerances for these? Durability? (looking at the V1/V3 hunting shafts, not the big diameters or thin walls).

JOE PA

Jeff:

Lots of info on AT. I did buy a dozen of the HVs last Christmas. They spined as close to ACCs as anything I have tested, which admittedly hasn't been that much. They shot very well for me, but IMO, they are not all that durable. Not sure I'd want to hit bone on a deer with the HV, so I never hunted with them. The regular shafts should be a lot tougher.

JeffB

Hey bro! I did some searching on AT, but couldn't find much about spine consistency, though weight and straightness seems on the money. I'd def be using the tougher hunting series shafts. Thanks for the FYI, coming from you that gives me confidence to try some (if my shop carries them)

I remember myself and a few others (Len especially) on this website kept harping for YEARS just how good A/C/Cs were and how critical spine is and how most all carbons sucked in that regard. Not many people listened I don;t think. I'm glad now I see all the manufacturers are hyping spine consistency, trying to get it right- even Bowhunter magazine online has a video spot on the website talking about it (though it's basically just a commercial for CX shafts ). Like I always said, you wouldnt shoot a 2314, 2413, and 2412 outta your bow at the same time so why would you do the same thing with the cheap@$$ carbons ?

:steps off soapbox:

brucelanthier

I know you are asking about Victory arrows and I am guessing you know about Carbon Tech arrows since you mention Len but, I have tested some (around 18)CT Whitetail XP's and the spine consistancy was .005 or less. There were a couple that ran out to about .008-.010 but that is still very good. All were straight if you allowed for trimming the ends off and using a shaft length less than 31" or so.

I also tested some CT Cheetah Hunters (11)and they were not quite as consistant overall but still very good.

JeffB

Heyya, thanx for the info Bruce! Yup I am familiar with the CTs. The last dozen arrows I actually bought (2005) were CT Whitetail (.005) shafts and they kicked everything else in all carbon I had tested to the curb. If I remember correctly they all ended up having a TIR of around .002 when I tested them after trimming from both ends, and spine was as tight as a frog's @$$ Durabilty was good, better than say a CX, but not as tough as a Goldtip.

I'm hoping my shop still carries CT or has the Victory shafts for me to give a try (forgot to ask when I was there). I just never could warm up to CX arrows, in fact I prefer Goldtip Pro Hunters over CX (once I twiddle the nocks to pull the arrows into a group).

However I have not shot a bow in 3.5 years or more, and I couldn't prolly tell or see the difference between an X10 and a Goldtip Expedition Hunter on a target these days [:'(]

muzzyman88

I'm glad this thread was brought up. I'm thinking of trying a different shaft this year, but am undecided. I've been shooting Gold Tip XT's and really don't have any complaints. Just wondering if there is anything better out there in the same class.

Victory has gotten rave reviews on AT from a number of people. However, I'm somewhat hesitant to pick them up at this point.

This brings me to my question. Of the arrow manufacturers out there, who has the best spine consistency? I've always understood that spine consistency if far more important than whether a shaft is .001 or .005 straightness. I've read that CX has the best consistency and Easton following in second.

Any thoughts?

JeffB

I cannot say about CX these days, they were always decent, but must have had some serious improvements if they are more consistent than Easton. Back when I was constantly testing these things, A/C/Cs and Carbon Tech were as good as it gets (barring extreme high dollar Easton target shafts). Easton/Beman ST Axis, ICS HUnters, etc were pretty good, but they lost spine quickly over time, and straightness was generally poor. CX were a bit less consistent than the Easton ICS/ST spine-wise but had better straightness tolerances , and Goldtip was wayyy in last place for spine consistency. Of the major manufacturers that is. Still I shot Goldtip Hunter Pro's out of my 80 pound Liberty and with some fine tuning they shot well for quite some time before losing spine. Certainly the toughest of the bunch.

muzzyman88

JeffB, can you elaborate more on the loss of spine issue? How long must you shoot a batch of arrows before this happens?

I'm debating trying a new shaft, but the GT's have treated me well. I've had the same dozen for about 3 years and they still shoot well for me.

JOE PA

Jeff and Muzzy, I'm really sorry this did not come up about a week ago. I just cleaned up "my" room in the basement, and thought I didn't need the paper where I wrote down all of the spine #s for the dozen Victorys I bought last year. I don't know if anyone would really want to rely on the #s I got with my homemade spine meter, but it did show that ACC 3-60s barely made the gauge move at all. Victorys were the next best, and CT Cheetahs were a close 3rd. My son's Gold Tip XTs had much more variation, though to be fair, they were used arrows that came with the bow, so who knows how much use/abuse they took.

As far as spine degradation, I though the original Axis 400s changed quickly and groups showed it. Likewise Blackhawk Vapors changed fast and I had issues with splinters even when trying to refletch. My Carbon Tech Cheetahs have be very durable for what they are. JME

JeffB

It's simply as the arrow gets pounded day in and day out, shot, smacked into targets, yanked back and forth pulling them out of targets, etc the fibers can weaken/loosen up- especially arrows that use a "composite fiber " design like the old CX Terminators and Beman ICS/easton Excel/original ST Axis (ever break an ICS? or a Terminator? You will see this white thread like stuff in there- that's the composite construction).

This is one area where Goldtip is better because they use a more "pure" carbon/graphite. Unfortunately Goldtips only have a 3 layer horzontal/vertical wrap (as did those older Easton shafts) and a blatant seam. This makes spine tolerance much tougher to get consistent.

Arrows like current CX, and PSE Carbon force use a multi directional weave (original CX shafts also used the vert/horiz layers but there were 5). It is also thought that on the GT type construction (as well as the original CX arrows) that the layers can "shift" a bit, causing spine variance over time. The weave type design eliminates this problem and allows them to be more consistent with spine througout the entire length of the shaft through the whole diameter, and leaves no real seam.

If Goldtips have done well for you and you are happy then I'm not sure there is a need to switch, but I think you will find more forgiveness/consistency in a higher tolerance shaft like CT or an A/C/C (at the expense of some durability), especially at 30 yards plus, faster speeds, and shooting fixed blade heads.

But as I said, get a good set of Goldtips and do some nock tweaking and you can def get a great set of shafts- I've done it, it's just a crapshoot- and can get expensive unless you have a shop that will let you sort through shaft after shaft. I think out of my last dozen of Goldtip Pros, with some cutting from both ends and nock tweaking I was able to get 8 or 9 out of the dozen that shot very well out of my Liberty (29" draw, 80 pounds, close to 5 g/lb). The other 3 or 4 just would not dial in, and shoot with the rest, they'd always be an inch or more out around 20 yards, and at 40, a few inches out, or worse.

FWIW- I shot mostly mechanicals cos I prefer them, you can def get away with some more arrow slop with mechs. The last season I hunted I was experimenting pre-season with 4 blade Stingers (then new), and NAP Razorbacks in my Outback and Liberty, and thats where the "slop" was killing my accuracy. Nock travel is also a big factor for slop tolerance. If your bow's nock travel is not good, the more probs you will have. I suspect that is hardly the factor it was just a few short years ago with today's singles and hybrid cam designs.


I suspect after the arrow nerd sermon I just gave, everyone is wishing I'd stay away for another 3 or 4 years