CargoF16

JeffB
Arrows: Easton Carbonaeros 400' s, 27.5 inches (nock slot to insert), 100 grain field tips, 2 7/8 vanes (3 of them).

thanks for looking this over

JeffB

I think it' s arrow spine, especially if you are NOT shooting a loop (which I cannot tell from the PICS).

Some points

1) Epic 400 carbon-aeros run softer than a normal 400 class shaft, they run about .420 IIRC. The Excel' s do run true to spine listed. (EDIT they run .415 according to Easton)

2) They use a heavier front insert which weakens spine


I suggest you try a 340 class Easton shaft (even the Epic 340 which runs a bit soft too). Beman ICSH 340, ACC 3-60. Even a CX 300 or GoldTip 75/95.

My PAT DC DEFINITELY liked a stiff arrow. I had the same setup as you, 70 pounds, 28" mods, arrow length was similar, and I shot a loop, no problems with 340 class shafts, but 400 and 390 class shafts (ACC 3-49' s) were a no go.

EDIT: Because I cannot type today for some reason, and I checked the shaft spine)

radman

I would bet the problem is cam lean. It is almost impossible to get a good paper tear with a fall away rest when there is significant cam lean present. You get right to left string oscillations upon release, with the fall away rest there is no forward support to offset this.

The upper cam on your patriot is certainly leaning in your picture. It is hard to tell how much. I dumped my DC Pat because the upper cam was leaning several inches inside the lower limb. You can try twisting the cable harness to offset the cam lean. This may alleviate some of your problem.

JeffB

Radman,

While I don' t neccesarily think it' s the best situation, Bowtech indeed does state that there is supposed to be some cam lean present at " rest" .The bows are built and tweaked to have the cam track straight at full draw.

I had no trouble achieving excellent arrow flight with a drop away when using correctly spined arrows (and not having to resort to putting my arrow rest out so far as Cargo did).

There were some bushing issues with the some of first DC PAT models out that would cause the trouble you had with your bow.

radman

Jeff,

May have been. It was still pretty far off at full draw. When I tweaked the cables to get better alignment, I could not get the cable to ride smoothly in the cam module groove (thus cable wear with a break in the seving). I hate to say it but it was easier just to sell it.

At the time, I was getting great flight with my Black knight and was shooting it most of the time anyway. It now has a cracked limb and is on the way back to Bowtech.

Thank goodness I have an unlimited budget. I am really enjoying this Razortec I just picked up. I probably should never have sold my ' 02 Patriots. Those were great bows.

Matt / PA

Cargo,
Center shot on my Pat Dually sits inside the arrow shelf.........without breaking it out of the case and measuring my CXL 350' s sit with the left edge of the shaft just about on the edge of the arrow shelf. Yeah you are out there, and I' ll point at arrow spine as well. Think about it........you are basically shooting the fastest bow in the world so conventional spine charts are tough to apply, plus I think many are on the weak side....especially Gold Tips. Anyway if you are going to err do it on the stiff side, my BowTech duallys LOVE stiff arrows.
I' m shooting CXL 350' s and Linejammers for 3D, and at 29.5" arrow length and 57-60# that I' m shooting their chart shows me almost into the CXL150' s!! I think these bows would detonate a CXL150, and I' d be nervous shooting a 250 at that weight........well that and the fact it would probably be doing about 320fps.
In any event both my Pat Dually and my Pro40 Dually LOVE these 350' s and they fly like darts.
Also check your fletch clearance off that rest.......just because its a drop away, doesn' t mean for sure it' s getting out of the way. Its a quality rest, but I have heard of some guys getting contact from that model.

Rack-attack

Are you 100% sure you are not getting fletching contact with thet " thing on your shelf" Take it off or trim it down. I don' t under stand NAP, they sell a drop away and then tell you to stick this holder on your shelf that is almost always going to cause contact???.

I shot my DC pat with leaning cams, out of time and with week GT 5575' s and still got a good tear and good fight.

I have never seen a rest out that far[]

Are you sure you are not torquing the heck out of that riser.

CargoF16

I took that " thing off the shelf" Rack, aligned the rest to center shot and I shot several different arrows of heavier spine than mine (CX 400' s, CXL 350' s and some others I cant remember). All with the same results, a big tail right tear. I had one of the pro' s at the shop shoot it and he got the same results. Then I moved the rest back out and I shot bare shafts too and they' re hitting within an inch of where the fletched shafts are hitting with the rest " way out there" and putting bullet holes in paper.

Bottom line: That rest sure looks funny out there but it tears bullet holes and groups arrows like I' ve never shot before. Helicopters look funny to me but they still fly. I' m leaving until something doesnt work right.

thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.

JeffB

Cargo,

Very interesting...

Are you using the NAP replacement slide? with your Rest?

Reason I ask is that the bows are setup with the BT slider which has a minimal amount of cable clearance. When you try an aftermarket slider on the new bows, it will pull the cables farther away (towards the rod) causing more torque in the system, and could be causing things to be " farther out" .

Could be other things too, of course. I guess if the bow is shooting for you like you said , chalk it up as a mystery don' t mess with it!

DaveC

JeffB, Does your statement about the bowtech cable slides pertain to models with the infinity cam??
I was considering replacing the slide on my mighty mite with a simms tephlon, just because. Would it be better to leave the one I have on it?