RLoving1

I've only been into archery just under a year so I'm by no means a expert.But I look at it the same way as firearms...I have seen deer killed with sub-standard calibers but to be safe you need enough weight(bullet or arrow) and enough caliber(diameter or draw weight) along with shot placement for proper effectiveness.Wouldn't that stand to reason? With enough patience a person could take a deer with a pellet gun...or a hammer and nail...no golden bullet or arrow answere folks!

davepjr71

Rev,

More modern shooters user 100 gr or 125. Being a professional target guy doesn't make you the best hunter.

You can not compare broadheads to bullets. bullets use shock to kill. arrows use the broadhead to cut.

The same guys that say you don't need heavy draw weightbows say you need heavy arrows. A 420 gr arrow with a 100 or 125 gr tip will kill anything in North America, period.

10% or 18 or 50% FOC. A BH cuts through the vitals the deer is dead. Especially when you have 81 fp KE or over .50 slug feet of momentum.

MDBUCKHUNTER

In my experience it is the shot placement that counts. Regardless if you are shooting with 100 gr. head or a 250 gr. head.

Aren't we slightly loosing focus here people?

sixgunluvr

Shoot what ya bring, and to each his own, that what i say. Personally I am not a speed freak, I know many who are. I shoot 490 total weight...125gr. Muzzy 3 blade heads. 57-62lbs still gives me excellent penetration. I won't start a debate between light speedy arrows vs slower heavy arrows, all I can say is i've seen both and I prefer heavy with as much speed as you can get by increasing poundage...NOT decreasing arrow weight. My setup is extremely quiet and hits like a chopping axe.

brucelanthier

I would agree with this for the most part but, it is what happens when you don't hit the vitals.That's where the high FOC % heavy arrow matters, IMO. Heck, a field point with a 8% FOC throughthe vitals will kill a deer.

If everyone shot a 70# bow that was new and delivered arrows a that 81 fp KE then, yes, a 350 grain arrow with a 10% FOC would work out just fine, even on marginal hits. But, in my experience down here in southern MD, most bow hunters dust off their bow 2 weeks before the season, get out the 4 arrows they have left from the original dozen when they bought the bow, buy a styrofoam target at walmart and shoot it a few times to make sure they can hit the pie plate. Then they are ready for the bow season. They are the reason I find so many skulls in the woods when I am scouting LOL . I wish these guys used heavy arrows with a high FOC. Maybe they would find the deer then.

It's funny, these arguments between the heavy, high FOC guys and the fast, lighter arrow guys is usually by guys that could shoot a number 2 lead pencil, with a negative FOC,out of their bow and kill deer. Personally, I have no problem with light and fast, just not my cup of tea. I just wish the guysthat I'll see in walmart at the beginning of Sept. here in Southern MD would not get caught up in the light and fast hype (with their old, slow bows)and maybe used something a little heavier that would help with their marginal hits. But then, maybe not, I do like to find find all the antlered skulls I find LMAO .

davepjr71

bruce,

Well put. I couldn't agree with you more on the points you are making.

My arrow is 420 gr because I use a 125 gr tip and really do not want to go lower on the tip. I've shot into a cinder block, through 3/4" plywood, a 2"X4"'s nailed togetherthat the head was so deep that3" orso of the arrow broke off. I have every confident that even if I hit the shoulder my arrow would dothe joband why I say about using high DW bows. I could easily be over 300 fps but do not but at the same time do not like heavier arrows. I've even added weight to the Piston Points. I can see how some people think 250 gr tip is just as appropriate as I see a 125 for minimum usage.

The boneheads that wait until 2 weeks drive me nuts. If they would start in the spring or even early summer many hunters could easily draw 65 or 70 lbs. I had a back operation this spring and had to take about 1.5 months off from shooting. When I started back my 75 DW was a little rough. However, now it is smooth as butter for me with any body position you can think of. This is why I think more people could shoot higher poundage if they didn't wait so freaking long to shoot it would not be that hard to draw. [&:]

I do believe though that people that shoot lower poundage bows should use heavier arrows to try and get momentum equivalent to what you'd get from a 70 lb or higher bow. And honestly I think that's why a lot ofpeople on here say about 18% FOC and heavier arrows. They are shooting 45,50,55 or even 60 lb bows (or old heavier bows) really trying to accomplish the same thing I get with my set-up without a heavy DW.

At a local 3-D shoot a gentleman shooting traditional said that today's bows make it so easy you do not even need to practice. While I disagree with this way of thinking too many archers think this is true and that is sad. Wait for all the people to start showing up in late August or in September asking what bow to buy, arrows to use, release to buy, etc.[8D]

And I believe you are right that the guys arguing about this can all shoot and we all believe it what we are saying. I respect all shooters for what they shoot. I spent last Monday busting chops with some great guys that shot traditional at a 3-D range that I didn't even know. Even though we disagreed in the equipment to use we both respected what we shot and cracked barbs at each other's bows and equipment. I just do not like people telling other people that a certain way is the only way to go to kill a deer with a bow or for that matter anything in life. I like an old saying, "There is more than 1 way to skin a cat."

RLoving1

So my 07 BlackIce(60 d/w)is what you consider old and slow cause I shoot heavy FOC,or my 03 Extreme(60 d/w),both pushing the heavy foc out around 270 f.p.s.? I practice about every other day through the year so I'm confident in my setup and don't think I need a gorilla d/w to accomplish my goal.Saw a guy the other day shooting ICS 500's with 29 dl and 70 dw,thats the kinda folks you see making bad choices! At least we disscuss our setup and explore others.I'm not going to change mine and don't care if you change yours folks!

brucelanthier

LOL Absolutely not. Read my post slowly and youshould be able to determine the type of person I was actually talking about . My 07' bow is pushing my 23% FOC, 605 grain arrow at a blazing 220 FPS. Maybe I'm talking about myself [:-].

RLoving1

Sometimes I think we're preaching to the choir here Bruce!We all feel good with what we have it sounds like...just we all are comparing notes.Hope you are successful with yours this year and hope I get my first with mine!

davepjr71

We're talking old bows that shoot slow. And as you stated you practice a lot. Everybody has to feel comfortable with the equipment they have. If someone isnot then you need to make a change. However, I urge people to not state that the only good set-up is a heavy FOC set-up or high FOC with a heavy arrow.Some people make it sound like sacrilege to not use a heavy arrow or high FOC and seem to look down on those who don't.

bruce,

You may need a faster bow. lol j/k This is why I prefer a heavier DW. Your arrow would be almost 260 fps out of my Ally and I can make a 23% FOC arrow that weighs 553 that would be over 270 FPS. I think the great thing about archery is you have so many options and choices and can fiddle with so many set-ups.Good luck this season.

By the way, I'm sure you've seen that the first day is on a Monday for some wacky reason?[:@]